prized French Blue Footed Chickens

[Krys109uk]

Certain products have been produced in the same way, traditionally, for many years, often the name of the place of origin being synonymous with the product. On occasions, seeking to cash in on the popularity, companies from totally different places, make a somewhat similar product & call it by the same name, but is not the same product made in the traditional manner. Probably the commercially produced, less good product is also cheaper. It would not be the real thing but would most buyers realise this? This could then put the small traditional family producers out of business thus making the real & original product just about obsolete? For this reason many traditionally produced items have been given Appellation d'origine contrôlée or various other types of protected geographical status.
Like Champagne is to be produced in the Champagne region, Melton Mowbray Pork Pies have to be made in the Melton Mowbray area, Gorgonzola has to be made in a certain region of Italy & so on.

When big business could ruin a local traditional food industry it seems fair enough to protect the tradition.

 

[CTChick]

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[tadkerson]

Quote:
Krys,

The following rant is my opinion and does not reflect the views of this forum; unless someone else wants to participate.

That works well for Europe but is not affective in the USA. Price controls and protectionism is not favored in the USA. Most of the people in the USA do not want to pay for local tradition. If a product is superior or just as good as another and is inexpensive, it will sell and make money. Just because something is protected does make the product better, protection only makes it more expensive.

The people in the USA that are for protecting things usually have way too much money and are willing to pay for the what ever. These people say they have a discriminating palate and are able to enjoy the what ever. I say they are a bunch of snobs who enjoy certain things because others can not afford the product. It is all a status thing. The average Joe would not eat or drink the product because it does not taste good or is not worth the money.

In the USA, you can patent a product for 7 years. During the 7 years the product is protected and the company can charge the consumer what ever they want for the goods. After 7 years, all bets are off and the price of the product drops because others can make the thing at a lower price. Less expensive does not always equate to an inferior product.

My niece and her husband moved to Switzerland (his company wanted him to solve some problems at the location) . They had to pay 20 dollars for a chicken in a store, the same store in the USA charges 5 dollars for a chicken. They stopped in at a McDonalds to eat lunch and they paid way too much for the food. That is what happens with protectionism and price controls. You can not afford to eat.

I am finished. Thank You for your tolerance during my arrogant American outburst; I will now get off the soap box.


Tim

 

[kinnip]

Tim, by and large I agree. There are a few snob products I've tasted that really seem better. Perhaps it's the mystique, perhaps it's the fact that no one has successfully marketed a similar product. In example, I've not had an American Brie that I enjoyed. I hardly think that means it can't be done. I just haven't had it. Price/production controls really do nothing for me. If a product is good, it's good no matter where it came from. If it isn't good, it shouldn't have a competitive edge based on the authority of government.
When it comes to matters such as soil content, I'll give a little to the snob camp. I doubt CA can produce a Chianti the way I like it with their native soil. That said, there are all manner of soil amendments that may produce something so close I can't tell the difference. Of course, I wouldn't want to see the price tag on that bottle.

 

[Goose and Fig]

Tim- what about Vidalia onions, Vermont Cheddar,Florida Oranges, stuff like that? I think of it more as tradition and making the best with what your environment offers than protectionism. Still doesn't mean I'd eat raw chicken

 

[Krys109uk]

Tim, LOL....I have plenty of rants too.

I like to hear other people's point of view, especially when they are well presented; it gives one food for thought.

My personal opinion is that most often the traditional product is better than the mass produced copy & very often considerably better.

As the products are European & would have to be imported to US it seems logical that they would be, & are, more expensive over in US than in EU.

Out of interest, what would happen if people started selling Argentinian beef as Texas beef?
What would happen if someone just decided to open a fast food burger shop & call it McDonnald's without buying the franchise (or whatever they do)? Or if someone just decided to open an ice cream shop & called it Dairy Queen?

Having lived in EU for most of my life, I'm in a good position to be able to compare. I've tasted my fair share of properly made cheeses, wines etc. etc. I've also tasted horrible products claiming to be something they're not.

I don't agree that any properly made product is too expensive to eat. I also don't agree that most of these foods have any particular snob value. This may be the case in US but many, probably most, are not that expensive in EU; many, probably most, are considered "normal" food, at least in UK.

I am horrified at the price of European cheese in US. The price of fresh fish in US is a bit of an eye opener. I couldn't believe my eyes, seeing Cod the same price as fresh Salmon! I raised an eyebrow at the stuff calling itself "Champagne" sitting on the shelves of US "liqor" shops (proper Champagne is nice, if a tad pricey). The price of olives or olive oil over here; kiwis, Marmite, decent tea, diluting juice...... I just can't bring myself to pay the prices charged in US. Where allowed, I fill my suit cases & bring back 6 months supply.

I'd baulk at paying the equivalent of $20 for a chicken. While probably more expensive in UK they're not that expensive.

MacDonnalds & other US fast foods are, I believe, a good deal more expensive in EU (I don't eat fast food, either side of the pond) but there are very few of those drive through places in UK, almost all being the sort where one has to park & walk to the shop. Also US ice cream serving sizes completely swamp those of UK.

Fresh meat in US is cheaper than fresh meat in UK but people in EU tend to want lean meat & EU rules do not allow for the antibiotics & hormones etc. to be added to meat (US beef was banned in EU, don't know if it still is), also there are more rules, in EU, about the conditions in which the animals are raised.

Isn't it all swings & roundabouts?

Found this in Wikipedia:
"United States
The United States generally opposes protection of geographical designations of origin (since many of these that are protected elsewhere are commonly used generic terms in the United States, such as parmesan cheese). For example, one can buy American champagne, feta, gruyère and camembert. However, there are some groups that have some degree of protection for their regional designation. For example, Vidalia onions must be produced within a certain region around Vidalia, Georgia, as defined by the Georgia Department of Agriculture, and 100% Florida orange juice is certified as being such by that state's Department of Citrus. Some of these marks are protected in the United States under certification mark law, such as the Idaho Potato Commission's "Idaho" and "Grown in Idaho" registered trademarks for potatoes. On the other hand, there also are cases in which a geographical name has been trademarked for a particular product that might not even be manufactured there, such as Philadelphia cream cheese. However, there is little impetus to extend further recognitions at the federal level. Only products that are either made or sold in the EU are subject to the EU regulation."

 

[kinnip]

Krys-- I agree with you too. I don't think there's an industrially produced food product out there that can compete with something lovingly and painstakingly handcrafted or homegrown. I do, however, think that with the appropriate care a fine substitution for many regional favourites can be reproduced elsewhere, with a few exceptions. Foodstuffs made from plants are pretty regionally specific. Things like olive oil and wine do taste different from region to region, but to say that about chicken makes me narrow my eyes a bit. I've never performed a taste test, however, so I can't be sure. If anyone would like to send me some super special chicken to put to the test, feel free.
BTW, when I use the word "snob", take it with a grain of salt. I just spent $25 on a black bear burger. My feeling is there are food snobs who are getting their money's worth and there are food snobs who just like the bragging rights. Incidently, I didn't get my money's worth out of that bear.

 

[tadkerson]

Quote:
Unless the people trade mark the name, you can call anything what ever you want. Trade marks are a form of protectionism. They protect the name and not the product.


Krys and Happy MT.

I do understand your point about local names to a degree.

But to say only oranges are oranges if they are from Florida would be preposterous. And to say beef is only beef because it is from Texas would be the same deal. I am sure California has some things protected by law.

You can not grow oranges in Kansas because of the climate and that makes sense.

I can buy vidalia onion sets and grow them in Missouri and sell them as vidalia onions.

You can buy chedder cheese anywhere in the USA- Missouri chedder/Arkansas chedder. I am sure the people of Chedder ( Somerset county) are upset that the crazy Americans have the gall to call cheese chedder. I am sure the chedder name is protected in Europe.


Krys- if it is not chedder what do they call imitation chedder type cheese in Europe.


Beef from Argentina that is black angus can be sold as black angus in the USA because the black angus is a breed. If i buy some calves in Texas and raise them in Missouri what are they Missouri beef or Texas beef?????????. They are beef and good to eat.

There are very few things in the United States that are protected by law because of a name. Texas beef is not protected by law. You do not have to tell the consumer where the beef comes from. Good beef is good beef. There is no law protecting the product.

The French do not want anything to be called Champagne. Well whoop te do. Chapagne is made through a specific process and can be carried out by others.
Use the same grape cultivars and same strain of yeast, let the wine ferment in a special kind of bottle and age around 7 or more years in a cellar and you have champagne. In Europe I guess they call carbonated wine -- bubble wine?????????.
It is still champagne. Some states have adopted the European model and you can not sell bubble wine as champagne. I guess they have to use a name like Carbonated Chambourcin.

Kobe beef is a type of beef that is very expensive and they would go out of business if people were not willing to pay the crazy price for the beef. In the USA, the industry has been breeding to produce a balanced beef product. If somebody in the United States wanted to produce Kobe beef they could, just get the correct genes together and feed them the correct diet and you have Kobe beef.

The high prices on many imported goods are due to tariffs. Tariffs are also a form of protectionism put into place by different nations. Cheaper products coming into the United States have tariffs placed on them to raise the price so that growers or producers in the United States can get a specific price on their goods. I am sure the olive growers in California enjoy the tariffs on olives and olive oil.

The high prices you find on many products are due to government controls or

the proximity of the product to the consumer. If you want fresh marine fish in the mid-west you have to pay the price for flying the fish into an air port then trucking the fish to the store- all very expensive. If I want fresh catfish- no problem- plenty to be had at a reasonable price. The United States is a big place- traveling state to state is the same as country to country in Europe.


Tim

 

[kinnip]

Tim, you're terrific, but ya hit on a soft spot. Kobe beef, from the Wagyu breed of cattle, is only Kobe if a specific regimen of animal abuse is observed. The cow must be confined in a space so small it cannot even turn around. It must be fed beer to keep its rumen creeping along despite the poor diet of rich grain and no grass. It must be massaged to keep something resembling circulation going. I doubt that can be reproduced legally in the U.S. Frankly, I prefer the yankee Wagyu.

 

[Krys109uk]

Tim, I suppose one could look at geographical status as like a trademark.
I can see that things could be taken to extremes. I don't think they are for the most part. Using the example of beef. Nobody has said Aberdeen Angus can only be called Aberdeen Angus when raised in Aberdeenshire or Hereford Beef only called Hereford if raised in Herefordshire. Though it did cross my mind that slow maturing Scottish beef might taste different when raised in cool wet Scotland.


I don't think we have vidalia Onions in UK but from what Wikipedia says about them it does sound as if you might be breaking your country's law.....here's a bit of it. shhhhhh

"Georgia's state legislature passed the "Vidalia Onion Act of 1986" which authorized a trademark for "Vidalia Onions" and limits the production area to Georgia or any subset as defined by the state's Commissioner of Agriculture. "

to say only oranges are oranges if they are from Florida would be preposterous. And to say beef is only beef because it is from Texas would be the same deal. I am sure California has some things protected by law.

Nobody is trying to say oranges are not oranges, or beef is not beef, or cheese not cheese or chicken not chicken. I believe they are saying that Florida oranges must come from Florida. I plucked the name Texas Beef out of the ether; I have seen beef advertised as US Beef & in UK we like to buy British Beef. I don't think anyone would argue that if we buy British beef we expect it to be British. And it would seem Bresse Chicken has to come from Bresse.

You can buy chedder cheese anywhere in the USA- Missouri chedder/Arkansas chedder. I am sure the people of Chedder ( Somerset county) are upset that the crazy Americans have the gall to call cheese chedder. I am sure the chedder name is protected in Europe.

Cheddar cheese was refused protected geographical status; the demand for the product is greater than the area could sustain. I don't suppose that the people the the county of Somerset, or anywhere else in UK, realise or care, that a cheese using the name "Cheddar" is sold in US.

If it ever did enter anyone's mind it wouldn't occur to them that the cheese usually sold as Cheddar in US doesn't taste anything like proper Cheddar. It may be cheese but most of it isn't really "cheddar".

Champagne has a very distinct taste. The stuff I've had here as erm "Champagne" was nothing remotely like proper Champagne, it was nothing more than fizzy plonk.

I notice a few things in US get sold as "English" or "French" when they're not known in that form in England or France.....like "English" muffins......they're not proper muffins nor are they anything I recognise from home. French toast????. With sugar & cinnamon???.

There are loads & loads of things sold here that are nothing like their name sakes back in Europe.

I can see the price of fish, where I live, would be to do with the lack of proximity to the ocean, just like the prices of various EU foods are to do with the lack of proximity to EU. I was rather surprised when David mentioned pate de fois gras as if it was something unusual. It's nice, but certainly not rare in UK. The food in US is vastly different to the food in UK.​