Proper ventilation without creating drafts...?

[MyLittleRedCoop]

I read the page on ventilation. Very informative, and well-written. But I had questions regarding the finer points of ventilation (vs. drafts) So I'm hoping someone can help...

We have a very small all-in-one coop/run that we bought to serve as an intermediate step while my DH is making our "real" chicken coop. (I got impatient)

Real coop should be done in the spring - Yay! My question is about the little coop my gals will be wintering in.
1 - Where should I put (and how big should I make) vents on the little coop? (Does it even need any??) We live in mid-Mn - we do get fairly cold for a good part of the winter. I kind of feel like this coop was made more "cute" than functional, as I am getting a better look at it.

The coop came with a pop-opening, but no door. I made a little plexi-glass sliding door to cover that (at night), hoping to prevent drafts. The big door ("people door") to the coop has a pretty big gap around it. I was thinking I'd put a felt strip in there to prevent drafts, as any draft from there (or the pop-door) would literally blow right onto the chickens. However, I don't want to cause any humidity to build up... Should I put a smallish (2" x 4"??) vent at the top, over the pop door? (stock image of the coop we bought is below) Maybe with a hinge, so we can close it on days/nights when it dips down below zero? The back of the coop (the part you *can't* see in the photo) will be facing the north. That's where a lot of our strong winds come from. There is also a small space over the nest boxes, so I could put a vent there, too/instead.

2 - The page on ventilation also indicated that insulation would be helpful. This coop is tiny, though... Too small to put in a layer of fluff and sheet-rock it, etc. Would a thin layer of styrofoam sheeting on each wall be a good thing? Or would the chickens peck at it? And if the styrofoam is a terrible idea, other better ideas would be appreciated.

Hoping to get it all squared away, so I'm not out cutting holes (or filling holes - lol!!) in January, as mentioned on the Ventilation page! Ha!

 

[Judy]

They will eat styrofoam or any other loose material on the walls - or anything they can peck loose.

The idea of ventilation in cold climates is that the air exchanges at the vent, which is at a high point in the coop, away from the birds. Drafts are avoided if this is the only place air exchanges. Ventilation (1 sq ft per bird) is necessary to remove humidity, which causes frostbite. Frostbite can be avoided at temps well below freezing if humidity is controlled. It also removes ammonia which becomes toxic before humans can even smell it.

There is also the factor of snow, and that chickens tend to stay indoors all day when there is snow cover. Honestly, as you can see, that size coop is not really practical in cold areas during winter.

There is another excellent page on cold weather coops, written by the same member who wrote the ventilation page, here:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/winter-coop-temperatures

 

[chfite]

In my mind, ventilation is a means for air to move through a coop by thermal means rather than by blowing through. If two openings are not aligned so that the wind blows through, it is ventilation. If the wind can blow through them, it is a draft.

Keep in mind that chickens have this wonderfully insulating down coat to keep them warm. If there are chickens in a coop, they will keep themselves warm with their feathers and crowding together. As the air moves due to the warm air moving out of the coop, it will take the excess moisture the chickens produce and the ammonia from the droppings with it.

If you are uncomfortable in a breeze, you can step behind a sheltering wall and become warm. The temperature is the same, but you are not in the draft. You are still outdoors. This assumes that you are properly dressed to begin with, as the chickens are.

I would not bother to insulate a chicken coop. Preventing a draft is more important. All the insulation in the world does not prevent a draft.

It rarely drops into single digits temperatures here, but my chickens are out everyday regardless of the temperature. They seem to suffer more from the 100 degree summer days than from the cold of winter.

Chris

 

[Ridgerunner]

I agree with you. That coop, like a whole lot I see for sale, is more cute than practical. That one is going to be hard.

I don't know where the roosts are in that one. I think they are probably too high for my normal suggestion, which is to cut holes right under the roof on two sides so you get a breeze going through over their heads when they are sleeping. If the breeze is blowing over their heads when they are sleeping, they are not in a draft. In your coop, they are probably sleeping really close to the roof so you don't have much room to work with.

Ammonia is quite a bit lighter than air. If you have a vent at the high point, the ammonia will rise and leave through that vent. As long as you don't let the poop build up and stay moist, you are probably not going to get much ammonia anyway, but a small vent up high over their heads will get rid of any significant amount of ammonia that is there. That's not likely to be your problem.

Hot air rises and hot air holds more moisture than cold air. To get rid of excess moisture, you need vents up high. In the summer, you need vents down low too, but not in the winter. Just their body heat will provide some warmer air to hold the excess moisture in the winter. It's not much in really cold weather but it is there.

There has been a lot of debate on the value of insulation on this forum, usually ending with people not agreeing. In any case you are not going to keep the temperature cooler or warmer than a base ambient temperature just using passive insulation, but you can affect the rate of heating or cooling. I think insulation has the greatest value in hot sunny climates, keeping the heat out by putting it under the roof and on the sunny walls. It helps keep the temperature from getting above that ambient by reducing the amount of heat that can radiate in from a really hot roof or wall.

How much it helps in the winter against the cold in a well-ventilated coop is harder to figure out. It's not going to warm anything up without a separate heat source. It can reduce the rate that you lose heat through the walls or roof by radiation. I think insulation can reduce the rate of heat loss if you have a thermal mass in there, like the ground, but you don't have that in your elevated coop.

Any nonconductive material that traps air will improve your insulation. The more air you can trap and the less conductive it is the more it helps. They are likely to eat anything they can peck loose and you don't have much room to start with. A thin layer of plywood would provide some insulation, but I don't think it would be worth it to you. A layer of bedding material will provide insulation on the floor.

So how do you add ventilation in your coop without putting them in a cross breeze when they are sleeping? I suggest you look at your prevailing wind direction in the winter. That can be different for each of us depending on the terrain. On what is normally a downwind side put some type of opening for ventilation. I don’t know how much will be enough for you. That’s going to depend on breezes, how it is situated and different things for each of us. It’s hard to provide too much as long as a breeze is not hitting them directly.

Then look at putting in a roof vent over an area where they are not sleeping. The air flow from you opening in the wall to the vent should not pass through the chickens on the roost. If you get a wind from the downwind side you can get a breeze between that opening and the roof vent, so try to keep them out of that. I don’t know that you need 1 square foot of ventilation per chicken, especially with a roof vent since those can handle quite a bit if air flow. Just do the best you can.

A potential problem with a roof vent is that the snow may pile up high enough to block it. I don’t know how much snow you get.

As far as giving them more room in the winter when you have snow in the ground, you might consider something on the upwind side of your run. I think your run is covered? Try to create a corner where the snow does not build up in the run. That can be hard, but some people use tarps or something like that.

This is a temporary solution to get you through one winter. Just build your permanent coop bigger than you need with more ventilation that you need and with room for them to sleep under the cross breezes.

Good luck!!! That little coop is a challenge, especially in a cold snowy climate.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Ridgerunner, well said. Well said indeed. Should be a sticky.

 

[MyLittleRedCoop]

Thanks, guys! Great info - both the suggestions and the link to the other page.
I am regretting that I (wrongly) assumed that my local farm supply store would only stock products for animals that were actually functional in the location purchased. But I'm glad I'm figuring it out now, before it gets cold. And grateful for the knowledge from people who have experience!
The big run will be fenced and covered in a couple weeks, so we will be able to put the little coop in there. We can block some of the wind and snow from really blowing on it by putting up a tarp on the north side. It will also provide a somewhat sheltered area for them to run. (It's not the solid roof section, so will probably eventually get some snow on the ground, but the tarp should prevent some drifting. And I can always shovel.) So at least they wont be completely stuck in the tiny thing with no place to move around...
I took out the "roosts" the little coop came with (they were too close to the bottom, and I couldn't put any litter in it), and made one out of PVC, so I could put a good couple inches of litter in there, which should help hold heat in on the bottom. I'll screw a flat board to it so they can cover their toes when they roost.
I think the small vents in the top will give the cross-ventilation that was recommended, without putting them in the direct breeze. I'll try that.
If we can get the main structure of the big coop up, I may just move the little coop in there. I'm just not sure how that will affect our ability to get it finished.
And, yes, I have been combing this website for details on how to make the permanent coop as safe, functional and comfortable as possible for the chickens. I'm a big one for doing things "the right way", (especially when it involves live animals) so this little coop has been a huge point of mental grumbling for me. The real coop will have 120 sq ft of fully-insulated and well-ventilated coop space, and 200 sq ft of covered run, 50 of which will have a solid roof.

 

[danib]

This is an issue I'm pondering, also. We are about to start building our coop, and I want it to be well ventilated but not drafty. I live in New England, and our temperatures are extreme. The average summer temp is 90 and the average winter is like 20. We are going to insulate, and we'll have a window on every side, but we haven't decided on the proper ventilation. Seems like we're supposed to put a few holes under the roof line on each wall..is that right? Any suggestions?

 

[danib]

We have our first chickens and are about to start building the coop. We are unsure about the ventilation. We want proper ventilation without creating drafts. We live in Massachusetts and the weather is extreme sometimes. The average summer temp is 90* and the average winter temp is 20*. We are insulating and we will have a window on each side. Do we just cut out a few holes on each side under the roof line? I just want to get this (and the automatic door..lol) right. I think we have a handle on everything else. Any suggestions?

 

[Ridgerunner]

There are so many types of coops it’s hard to be precise in suggestions. Leaving openings under the roof overhang works great. Roof vents and gable vents get rid of a lot of air. I’d beware of ridge vents since those can be blocked by snow. If you want to get fancy, a cupola is really effective.

Don’t think about averages. Think about extremes. That’s when your problems come. My suggestion is to build your coop bigger than you think you need and provide more ventilation than you think you need. That way you are covered for a lot more things.

It was 4 degrees above zero Fahrenheit when I took this photo. The wind was not blowing, mine hate a really cold wind, but if given their option, they go out in weather you would consider cold. Don’t think 20 degrees is all that cold. It’s not to them. Next winter watch the wild birds outside. That might give you an idea of what your chickens can handle.

 

[danib]

We are putting in a cupola, actually. But I wasn't sure how effective it would be. We are going to have a roof over the whole thing.. hen house and run.. and we're going to have plexy glass pieces that we can put to shield the run space from snow and rain getting in. Maybe it'll help them to go outside in the winter. If not.. that's OK too.
That is excellent advice. Thank you very much. Makes sense for me, because I always say 'I'd rather have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it'