Pros & cons of high protein feed for chicks

[Pathfinders]

As always, the information Chris has provided here is spot-on (he and I are friends offline as well as on.)

I also raise Buckeyes, and can attest to the higher protein making a huge difference in rate of growth. Interesting story:

I sold some Buckeyes several years ago to a woman in another state. Advised her to follow the guidelines Chris uses here (although I do recommend medicated feed. Turkey starter can be purchased in a 30% and medicated as well.)

She declined to follow my advice regarding protein, but raised her birds up, and was happy with them. Until she went to a show, and saw someone else with a Buckeye from my lines. She was astounded by the difference in size between her cockerels and his. She asked him about it, and the only difference that could be determined was the different approach with feed.

So although this is not a scientific study, and completely anecdotal, I feel it accurately illustrates how some breeds (particularly those like the Buckeye, with game birds in its ancestry) greatly benefit from higher protein levels in the first 8 weeks or so.

As well, I am a huge believer in the concept that chickens need animal protein to really thrive, and that they don't do well with just vegetable sources of protein. But that may be the subject for another thread.

 

[Michael Apple]

The report was made in 1939 by H.W. Titus, in the Yearbook of Life, 1939:811, US Dept. Agr. regarding nutritive requirements for poultry, that chicks made the greatest gain per pound of feed when the diet consisted of 21% protein. That level proved to 99.7% efficiency. The testing was continued showing rapid decrease in growth after protein levels fell below 17%.
What is also interesting is trials show the time required to reach maximum live weight was increased as the level of protein was reduced in stages of development. The results of all trials performed at Cornell indicate that to obtain early rapid growth the ration should contain approximately 20% protein during the first month. This amount can be reduced 2 percent each succeeding month. The indications are also that the ration should not fall below 15% with mature birds.

Quality of protein is another important part of this make up of protein. Amino acid requirements must be present in the ration, others are synthesized by the chick.

 

[Pathfinders]

The report was made in 1939 by H.W. Titus, in the Yearbook of Life, 1939:811, US Dept. Agr. regarding nutritive requirements for poultry, that chicks made the greatest gain per pound of feed when the diet consisted of 21% protein. That level proved to 99.7% efficiency. The testing was continued showing rapid decrease in growth after protein levels fell below 17%.
What is also interesting is trials show the time required to reach maximum live weight was increased as the level of protein was reduced in stages of development. The results of all trials performed at Cornell indicate that to obtain early rapid growth the ration should contain approximately 20% protein during the first month. This amount can be reduced 2 percent each succeeding month. The indications are also that the ration should not fall below 15% with mature birds.

Quality of protein is another important part of this make up of protein. Amino acid requirements must be present in the ration, others are synthesized by the chick.

Interesting! However, I think we can agree that different breeds have different nutritive requirements. Was that report/study done on a number of different breeds, or likely just on production breeds like leghorns?

 

[Michael Apple]

Interesting! However, I think we can agree that different breeds have different nutritive requirements. Was that report/study done on a number of different breeds, or likely just on production breeds like leghorns?

I understand your reasoning for differentiating breeds raised for meat versus those for egg production. Some trials were performed with Leghorns and some with Cornish. The protein requirements don't differ much according to what I've researched. The beneficial standard of 20-21% protein until chickens are about 12 weeks old, then gradually reducing protein content to 16-17% by the time pullets are ready to lay. I think the overall nutritive requirements say much about the quality of meat or eggs, and it is a vast subject due to many years of research.

Much of the protein requirements are established like this in difference; for hatchability, chicks, layers, ducks, and turkeys. Lots of interesting research in regard to animal protein and vegetable protein. Both serve their purpose in balanced proportions.
I will provide this result of research in regard to amino acid requirements. Diets deficient in certain amino acids will limit results of development. The quality of protein makes a big difference. The requirements established by research are as follows:

arginine: 1.2%
glycine: 1.0-1.5%
isoleucine: 0.5%
leucine: 0.5%
lysine: 0.67%
methionine (with cystine present): 0.28-0.42%; sulfur bearing amino acids (methionine + cystine) 0.7-1.0%
phenylalanine: 1.6%
thionine: 0.45-0.6%
tryptophan: 0.18-0.5%
valine: 0.7%

 

[Pathfinders]

I understand your reasoning for differentiating breeds raised for meat versus those for egg production. Some trials were performed with Leghorns and some with Cornish. The protein requirements don't differ much according to what I've researched. The beneficial standard of 20-21% protein until chickens are about 12 weeks old, then gradually reducing protein content to 16-17% by the time pullets are ready to lay. I think the overall nutritive requirements say much about the quality of meat or eggs, and it is a vast subject due to many years of research.

Much of the protein requirements are established like this in difference; for hatchability, chicks, layers, ducks, and turkeys. Lots of interesting research in regard to animal protein and vegetable protein. Both serve their purpose in balanced proportions.
I will provide this result of research in regard to amino acid requirements. Diets deficient in certain amino acids will limit results of development. The quality of protein makes a big difference. The requirements established by research are as follows:

arginine: 1.2%
glycine: 1.0-1.5%
isoleucine: 0.5%
leucine: 0.5%
lysine: 0.67%
methionine (with cystine present): 0.28-0.42%; sulfur bearing amino acids (methionine + cystine) 0.7-1.0%
phenylalanine: 1.6%
thionine: 0.45-0.6%
tryptophan: 0.18-0.5%
valine: 0.7%

Excellent info, thanks for posting that!

Anecdotally, I have found that higher protein in the first 8 weeks for Buckeyes does make a difference. Next spring I'll have to split a hatch and do half as you suggest and half as I normally do and then chart their growth rates over the weeks. Should be very interesting to approach it more scientifically.

 

[missnu01]

The amount of protein is a slippery slope. Higher protein causes a hens eggs to be larger than they are with a lower protein diet, but too high for too long and your hens start having trouble becoming egg bound and having vent blowouts. I notice chickens that lay really large eggs to begin with seem to suffer the most from higher protein. I found this to be true after I inadvertently killed a number of buff orpington layers. I keep turkeys and I was feeding all the birds high protein feed, and I love the huge eggs, but my BO hens went from laying me 70-73 gram eggs to laying me 80-85 gram eggs. After a few months of 80 gram eggs they would inevitably turn inside out. And I would have a hen walking around with her insides sticking out her vent... so I ended up eventually having to cull all my BO hens except a few that were sold... my other chickens didn't seem to have that particular issue, but there is a marked difference in egg size with an increase in protein. Some hens can handle it and well, some can't.

 

[KSH1]

I know this is an old thread, but I'm curious and have read a lot of conflicting recommendations on protein content of feed. My chicks are almost a week old and I have no adult birds because I gave them away when we moved. I don't have any production-type layers unless Easter eggers count, plus these are hatchery birds. But I'd like to do the best that I can for them. I do have 2 Buckeyes but also Brahmas, BJGs, GLWs, EEs, Spitzhauben, OEGBs, bantam EEs, and bantam Mille Fleur D'uccles.

They are currently on New Country Organics chick starter, which is 21% CP including fish meal. I am offering it fermented as well as dry. Their highest protein feed is 25% turkey starter. I do have other brands available locally but I also quite like the farmer selling the NCO and would like to support his business. I'm also unsure about levels of protein as they grow up. Again, no leghorns, but a wide variety of sizes, and likely several roosters (the bantams and Spitzhauben were straight run). I'd like to try to make everyone as healthy as possible and choose whether to keep roos based on temperament and quality versus whether I've killed them off with too much calcium, so I was thinking of using the Grower plus oyster shells instead of Layer. But my chicken knowledge is not where I'd like, and apparently the NRC requirements haven't been updated in decades, so I'd love some educated input. Thanks!

 

[Timothy Menezes]

Your right, this is a very old thread you have resurrected.

18 to 22 percent for starting chicks works well.

16 to 20 percent for laying chickens works well.

22 to 24 percent works to maximize growth for meat chickens, but max life expectancy is 8 weeks so the long effects of high protein intake, while present, are not relevant.

Long term 30% protein is not good for any of them, long term. Those that promote it are almost always allowing them to free range. Any chicken that free ranges is free to balance its own diet so that is not a fair comparison as their chickens are eating a fair amount of low protein grasses and such that balances out their diet.

 

[KSH1]

Thanks @Timothy Menezes. Good point about free ranging. We'll be building a very large run but can't truly free range here. Sounds like the 19% grower might be a good way to go after the starter, and I can offer oyster shell once they start laying.

 

[Mosey2003]

I have been looking for this thread for ages! Thank you for bumping it.

I have gone to feeding 28% medicated turkey starter to my chicks for the first 8 weeks, and then gradually lowering. I want to maximize the size potential to see just where the genetics are. But anything over 18% is really fine.