Puzzle - Please help!

[MotherJean]

I sincerely hope this is not Marek's

I love a happy ending. Do keep us in the loop on how things go. This is how we all learn.

 

[kelar]

It is possible that it could be Mareks, but it is kind of unlikely at this age. Mareks takes about 3 weeks from time of exposure to cause noticeable symptoms & in most cases, affects 5-6 month old birds (not always though). Coccidiosis is another problem that generally does not cause problems until about 8 weeks of age because of the life cycle of the parasite. A 3-4 week old bird may be infected with cocci, but would not be to the point of being really ill or dying yet. I'd suspect a bacterial infection of some kind - e-coli or salmonella perhaps. You might try treating with Albon (I think this is Sulfadimethazine) along with vitamin/electrolyte solution to keep them hydrated. Karen

 

[MotherJean]

According to this source: http://poultryone.com/articles/mareksdisease.html

"Mareks usually hits between 5 and 25 weeks [emphasis added] of age, but can appear even later if the bird had 'latent' MD and is substantially stressed."

 

[pookieslw]

Thanks everyone for all your insight. The family has decided to just wait and see. If we lose another bird we will likely take it for a necropsy. However the currently questionable bird does not seem to be deteriorating. She does spend time cuddling up with buddies - ie she actually pokes her head around their breast feathers like a little toddler. Don't know what all that's about. But I did see her preening this morning, and she came right out with all the rest to the pen right away.

On a side note I was treated to a major panic attack this morning because I thought I saw bloody poop - a bunch! But it was all under the roosting bars and the bird in question isn't roosting and could not have had that much poop. I finally realized it must be the red colored chick grit they have.... They must have hit a mother lode of grit dust.

I will update if something happens, or in a couple weeks if it all resolves nicely.

Thanks!

Sara

 

[pookieslw]

Update -

So I did not treat for cocci because we couldn't find the drug anywhere. We recently lost very small BO rooster (vaccinated natchery bird), 24 hours from uh-oh to dead. The little bantam is still the same, no better no worse. I tried worming them with Wazine. No worms in poop the day after worming, but two more BO are sick. One is another small rooster, another is a not large hen. I heard a few sneezes in the last 24 hours, so I just started Duramycin. They also seem to be wiping their beaks on the ground alot? But I've examined them and see nothing wrong....? None of these symptoms are really obvious, I'm just grasping at straws. I do know that there seems to be a wide variation in stage of development among all the hatchery chicks - I have one roo with lots of comb/wattles, and one still with bedhead. Is this normal? They are almost seven weeks old.

?If it's something the Duramycin can treat, how long before we see improvement?

No, I haven't done a necropsy. The last one to die was mentioned, the day before he got sick, to be a "very nice friendly bird, can we keep him", by the kids. I HAVE checked with them about feeding the favorites ANYTHING or doing ANYTHING with the favorite and they said no, nothing different. They aren't touching the birds anymore, just in case, but these last two still got sick.

I'm having a hard time figuring out where I would get a necropsy done.


Fortunately (?!?), the kids are resigned to chickens dying left and right......


As a side note, I'm very impressed with the temperment of the BOrps. There has been no picking on the sick ones. The other little bantam who is VERY well, is getting chased a bit, but the little sick bantam pushes right in there to eat/drink, and when she's just standing there, no one bothers her.

 

[MotherJean]

Call your agricultural extension agency (they'll be listed in the phone book). The should be able to advise you on where you can get a necropsy done. The other possibility would be to contact your Vet. He/she should be able to direct you, too.

Duramycin is a broad spectrum antibiotic primarily used to treat bacterial respiratory illness. It is not an effective treatment for cocci, which is a protozoa. Sulfa drugs are used against cocci, like Sulmet or Corrid. These should be readily available at your feed store. If not, order online. Were I in your position, I would continue the duramycin in their water supply and treat them for cocci for the recommended 5 days (2 days at full strength meds, 3 days at half strength).

Your troubles are sure a mystery. Have you considered the possibility of bad feed?

 

[pookieslw]

Thanks for the necropsy help.

About bad feed - they are on their second bag of chick starter/grower from Tractor Supply. The illness spans the change of bags - so it wouldn't be "a" bag. The only other source of feed that I can find around here is an Agway dealer - and they only sell the medicated chick feed - which I can't do because of the cocci vaccine. I'm thinking it isn't cocci, since now three "vaccinated" birds are sick.

What do you recommend about the feed?

 

[MotherJean]

I'm confused. Were these birds vaccinated at the hatchery for Marek's or for coccidiosis?

Since they are now on their 2nd bag of feed, the only feed issue would be if it is kept in an area where it could become damp/wet and grow mold or be a source of botulism. Shot in the dark.

 

[pookieslw]

The BOrp chicks were vaccinated at the hatchery against both Marek's AND cocci.

I'm thinking that since I introduced the local breeder's birds to mine within the first week, the vaccination didn't quite take hold enough and the new birds brought Marek's in.

I think this all looks more like low grade Marek's rather than cocci. There was green stuff in the box with them when they arrived - thinking this was the vaccination. Maybe some birds didn't get as much, got Marek's from the local breeder's birds and have been slowing failing. There is one local breeder bird that is doing well, but had a few days with first couple weeks when she didn't look so hot. Maybe she survived? I've heard they never survive and that they sometimes survive and are carriers.

Or it's some other low grade thing brought in from the wild birds in the yard - there are alot of those. If hens and a roo make it and have chicks next spring I'll be curious to see what happens with them.......

Right now, I'm praying for the Duramycin to have some magical effect....

BTW - what about their uneven development, do you know if that's normal? It is in human kids, birds?

Thanks for keeping up with me!

 

[MotherJean]

I believe that info on Marek's that I gave you the link to said that vaccinated birds need to be isolated from exposure to Marek's for at least 2 weeks. Maybe re-read that to see if my memory is correct? If it is, then your guess that these were exposed to the disease within 1 week (by introducing non-vaccinated birds) is certainly worth consideration. Marek's is a strange and dreadful disease. I am quite sure that I read that not every bird in the flock is certain to contract the disease. In addition to that, Marek's can give one bird brain lesions (paralysis), another tumors on skin or organs, and another may simply go blind. Some die. Some don't. I suppose that's why it is so hard to diagnose with certainty without the benefit of exam and testing after death.