Pyncheons?

[Shelleyfitz]

Hi, I just came across this thread. I raise and breed Pyncheons. If the picture is yours, I'm sorry to tell you that those are not Pyncheons. Maybe a cross between Pyncheons and Mille Fleur D'Uccles. Pyncheons do not have muffs or beards as the ones in the photos have. Also, there's great debate over leg color as well as the "tassel" or knob and a floppy comb. It's almost impossible to not have the comb flop over due to the limited space between it and the knob. I also just started breeding Porcelain Pyncheons. Took me ten years but I'm finally there.

n

I saw the original pictures and that's why I said that they're not pure Pyncheons. Or Mille's for that matter. I'll try to upload a picture of my Pyncheon pullet (my favorite one from this year). The base color is nice and deep. She's a cutie pie and super sweet. My favorite breed of all time. Do you still have your Pyncheon flock? If so, do you have any updated pictures? Where did you get your original stock from if you don't mind me asking? I'd like to add some new bloodlines into mine.

 

[Shelleyfitz]

 

[Bevendale Poultry]

Hi, I just came across this thread. I raise and breed Pyncheons. If the picture is yours, I'm sorry to tell you that those are not Pyncheons. Maybe a cross between Pyncheons and Mille Fleur D'Uccles. Pyncheons do not have muffs or beards as the ones in the photos have. Also, there's great debate over leg color as well as the "tassel" or knob and a floppy comb. It's almost impossible to not have the comb flop over due to the limited space between it and the knob. I also just started breeding Porcelain Pyncheons. Took me ten years but I'm finally there.

n

 

[Bevendale Poultry]

Hi! I would love to get started in millie fleur pyncheons! If you have any to share, eggs or juveniles, or know someone who does, please let me know! Thanks!

 

[Shelleyfitz]

Hi! I would love to get started in millie fleur pyncheons! If you have any to share, eggs or juveniles, or know someone who does, please let me know! Thanks!

Hi!
They are my favorite breed of chicken! Where are you located?

 

[sweetrebel65]

I've been raising them for quite a while. It's hard to find them anymore.
Most of the hatchery ones are not correct for the standard.

The breed has been overly line-bred and some faults appeared that were never corrected. When they are hatched, they should be brown and grey, not yellow.

The shanks of all the hatchery stock I've seen are pinkish white; they should start out yellow, then turn willow/olive green at sexual maturity.

The white-shank gene that is prevalent in these hatchery birds is dominant and incorrect.

The Mille Fleur pattern should show up as a nice red-bay color at feathering with as few spangles as possible since more spangles show up each year.

The yellow hatchery chicks feather into an instant, total, very tight, light yellow background Mille Fleur pattern with lots of spangles.

By the third year, or even the second, they have gone white from excessive spangling. The traditional red-bay Mille Fleur base color never appears.
The hatcheries (Privett, Strombergs, Welps) send out mostly yellow-downed chicks.

A few brownish colored ones were in the Strombergs as of three years ago.
I got my original stock there, and they had all been brown-downed chicks.

Other stock I've ordered since then have had a preponderance of the yellows. Other stock I've pursued have the same shank faults.

The tassel should be well-pronounced as a knob seen on the head in both sexes of chicks when they hatch, but you'll find a lot of chicks from the hatchery have males without any tassel.
To add to the problem, they'll have a floppy comb, the S-shaped type you see in Sulmtalers; this isn't right.
I also, personally, like to see a horn color to the beak; a lot are just pure white.
That is not that big a deal, but they should be that color at hatch.

But the biggest problem I've encountered, especially with recent additions to the flock is viability after hatching.
It appears to be an extremely limited gene pool.

I've worked on correcting the faults for a few years now.

The Mille Fleur pattern was a big problem, to get the right color I had to out-cross. It takes at least four gens to get this right.

This "instant Mille Fleur" allele (that is on a yellow base color, not red) that is expressed on the first feathering with over-spangling has been hard to displace.

The hatchery bird base has obviously selected for that gene over quite a few generations.

As General Bosquet said at the Charge of the Light Brigade, " C'est magnifique---mais ce n'est pas la Mille Fleur. . . "
Well, he didn't say " la Mille Fleur." But if he was a poultry fancier, he would have!

To paraphrase, "Yes, it is magnificent (to have an complete spangled pattern the first year) but it is not Mille Fleur! "

I've got it fixed with my birds; the original stock I had was/is correct (they are rather old now) but the "new" birds that are supposed to be purebred Pyncheons all carried this yellow-based allele.

I had to work on the shanks as well.
Yellow shanks at hatch is great;a lot will go green as they hit 60 days and beyond, then especially when they are at puberty.
You'll even sometimes see hens legs go slightly blue-green when they are laying due to hormonal changes.
If you are interested, I'll post some pictures of the incorrect vs. correct on Pyncheons.
Did you raise any this year?
Sincerely,
Dovemaiden

What great information you have! do you have any Pyncheons?

 

[LisaMP]

Dovemaiden has apparently been off BYC for several years. I tried contacting her a while back with no luck.

I worked for a few years with Pyncheons that I had gotten from Privett up until last Spring. I then moved my flock on. The Only birds available are hatchery. There is one, maybe 2 breeders that have old non-hatchery bloodlines, but they refuse to release birds or eggs. I would have been happy to purchase their culls, just to have fresh blood to integrate into my birds, but to no avail.

I whittled my flock down to the best trio I had and tried to work with them, but the inbreeding was a problem.
There is One breeder that occasionally popped into the FB Pyncheon group and his shared insights just increased my frustration : He said Not to breed roosters with white legs, because leg color comes from the male side, and you’ll Never get the correct colored legs. Problem is that the Hatchery stock is 99% white legged. I then set up an informal poll, none of the respondents other than him had birds with legs other than white. So, where do you go with that? He’s got them but won’t share, while telling us we shouldn’t breed the birds we have.

His reasoning for not sharing out was that in the past, the recipients didn’t safeguard the birds. let them get killed, cross-bred them, etc.
But telling us not to breed the faults that are bred into the birds we Can get just tells us not to breed them. I gave up in frustration to focus on something I Could have a chance of success with.

 

[lazlo8]

I whittled my flock down to the best trio I had and tried to work with them, but the inbreeding was a problem.
There is One breeder that occasionally popped into the FB Pyncheon group and his shared insights just increased my frustration : He said Not to breed roosters with white legs, because leg color comes from the male side, and you’ll Never get the correct colored legs. Problem is that the Hatchery stock is 99% white legged. I then set up an informal poll, none of the respondents other than him had birds with legs other than white. So, where do you go with that? He’s got them but won’t share, while telling us we shouldn’t breed the birds we have.

His reasoning for not sharing out was that in the past, the recipients didn’t safeguard the birds. let them get killed, cross-bred them, etc.
But telling us not to breed the faults that are bred into the birds we Can get just tells us not to breed them. I gave up in frustration to focus on something I Could have a chance of success with.

Of course I know the private breeder you are talking about here. I have seen the exact same behavior. Culling when you are dealing with nearly extinct birds is no different than being irresponsible as it comes to predators and the like. It might even be worse.

I have the one little hen and ... I am in love. I am not hoping to bring back the breed. But I'd like to try to get her a husband that is not pyncheon and go from there. Because she is the sweetest sweet sweetie that ever lived. What a personality! My gosh!

So now I am searching for a husband for her. I guess I am looking for a little chicken man with dark legs. I won't lie, it's confusing. But what can I do?