Question about inbreeding.

[MysteryChicken]

She's the Tiniest Orpington I've ever seen.

 

[RoostersAreAwesome]

Not Really. My genepool was actually pretty restricted. Most of my other birds were produced by Full Sibling Breedings.

Yeah, but you have used multiple breeds, which means that they’re genetically varied even if they’ve been linebred for a few generations.

 

[The Kooky Kiwi]

What I was taught about familial breeding / inbreeding / line breeding :

We start with the accepted knowledge that genes are passed from both parents to the chick.

If both parents have a good or desired gene, this can be handed down, and sometimes 'magnified' in the chick, resulting in an 'awesome' chick.

This is where familial breeding came into play. If you have a brother and sister, they are more likely to have received the same genes from their parents, increasing your probability of getting the desired genes to combine into your chicks.

We often see this where people are breeding to select for a new color that they know is not in any other unrelated bird. Quicker to breed brother and sister together when we "know" they both carry it.

The "problem" with familial breeding is that this combination rule is blind to whether the genes present are good or bad. IF your parent stock also carrya gene that is undesired or harmful - then this also could be combined into your chicks - resulting in a particularly poorly or bad example chick.

SO - as it was explained to me - there is nothing "inherently" wrong with familial breeding. You just have to accept that the results will greatly depend on the beginning stock you have to work with.

PERSONALLY - It has always been my policy to alternate one round of familial breeding then one round of outcrossing to an unrelated bird (completely unrelated is my preference!). This means my projects take longer - BUT I know that this is the safer way to maintain health and vigor and, in the long term, gives you a wider choice of project stock to work with.

HINT - If you are working on something very new, it is actually really helpful if you can collaborate with another breeder. Give them one good bird of the type you are trying to work with and ask them to work on them too. Then you can each swap birds later - this will help your outcrossing program as you know the birds you are getting back are reliable I find its an additional bonus to have someone to discuss the breeding plan and assess the results

 

[The Kooky Kiwi]

Yeah but that was my question. I dont know exactly for how long this birds have been inbreeded, and im afraid due to that chick that had some serious issues that if i breed my cockerel with my pullet, i will have many like him. Do you think that the little one was just a exception or a sing that i cant breed them?

The answer to this question - and several others - is to do a test breeding. It's no harm to your parent stock to do this. The only risk is that it might create a delay in your program if you eventually decide it wasn't the right pairing, and my may have to cull some chicks if they are not going to be healthy birds.

As previously suggested, hatch a good number so you have a fair chance at seeing all the outcomes. Some of the outcomes, both good and bad, have rather small probabilities of showing up so it's best to give it a proper chance to see if you might get than 1 in a million awesome baby

 

[Darius123]

The answer to this question - and several others - is to do a test breeding. It's no harm to your parent stock to do this. The only risk is that it might create a delay in your program if you eventually decide it wasn't the right pairing, and my may have to cull some chicks if they are not going to be healthy birds.

As previously suggested, hatch a good number so you have a fair chance at seeing all the outcomes. Some of the outcomes, both good and bad, have rather small probabilities of showing up so it's best to give it a proper chance to see if you might get than 1 in a million awesome baby

Thanks, but that s not really my purpose. I have someone who wants to buy some brahma babies from my main roo and hen, and i dont want to have the surprise that the babies will have genetic disfunctions/malformations.

 

[The Kooky Kiwi]

Thanks, but that s not really my purpose. I have someone who wants to buy some brahma babies from my main roo and hen, and i dont want to have the surprise that the babies will have genetic disfunctions/malformations.

Are they purchasing eggs for hatching? Or chicks after you've reared them for a time?

If it' the eggs - then you'll need to disclose to them about the parentage (including unknown length of linebreeding history) and let the buyer make their own informed choice.

It it's the chicks - then you can easily enough choose which chicks are suitable for selling on and which are not. You can tell your buyer that due to inbreeding in the line, you will be careful only to sell on healthy chicks.

And as previously discussed, you will only "know" what their babies will be like if you actually hatch some babies It's not a certainty they will be bad - just because they're related. In fact there's also a chance you could get some good trait combinations.

 

[MysteryChicken]

Yeah, but you have used multiple breeds, which means that they’re genetically varied even if they’ve been linebred for a few generations.

What would cause her tiny size?

 

[Darius123]

Are they purchasing eggs for hatching? Or chicks after you've reared them for a time?

If it' the eggs - then you'll need to disclose to them about the parentage (including unknown length of linebreeding history) and let the buyer make their own informed choice.

It it's the chicks - then you can easily enough choose which chicks are suitable for selling on and which are not. You can tell your buyer that due to inbreeding in the line, you will be careful only to sell on healthy chicks.

And as previously discussed, you will only "know" what their babies will be like if you actually hatch some babies It's not a certainty they will be bad - just because they're related. In fact there's also a chance you could get some good trait combinations.

They want 2-3 days chicks, but the surprise i had with the last batch (from where the roo and hen are) that the chick that was problematic was looking normal, he just stopped growing at some point and began to be extremely weak.

 

[RoostersAreAwesome]

What would cause her tiny size?

There are a lot of possibilities. I just don’t think it’s due to inbreeding.

 

[The Kooky Kiwi]

What would cause her tiny size?

The most probable answer is that it's a developmental thing - It's not uncommon to get "runts" - some of which thrive and some of which don't.

if "every" chick in that project group was growing out smaller and smaller, that's when you start looking at your stock genetics.