Question for Christians

[mdees88]

Well, that certainly tears it then. If He's coming "at a time you do not expect," He can't very well come during this Feast of Trumpets when EVERYONE is expecting Him, now can He?

And as for this:


... okay, you could say that at this time the saved get "raptured" or caught up from the earth. But again, nothing secret about it. See again 1 Peter 3:10. His coming is so bright everything gets destroyed.

No I do not think that Jesus is returning during the feast of trumpets, but the "rapture" (not the 2nd coming) "could" happen during the feast of trumpets. Most all who believe in an early "rapture" (pre or mid trib), believe it is an entirely seperate event from the "2nd coming" of Jesus.

1 Thes4:16-17 says we are caught up in the clouds to meet Jesus in the air (the rapture). The 2nd coming is when Jesus returns TO earth, actually steps foot on the Mount of olives, destroys evil, judges the earth, and rules for 1000 years.


The bible says that us believers will follow jesus down from heaven on horses when he returns to earth to make war and judge.


Revelation 19:11-14 ESV
[11] Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. [12] His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. [13] He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. [14] And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses.

Jude 1:14-15 ESV
[14] It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones, [15] to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness that they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”



If people believe in a post trib rapture (or no rapture), then they believe that us and all the dead will rise up to meet Christ in the air, then IMMEDIATELY hop on horses, turn around, and come right back to earth to make war.

That really doesn't make a lot of sense to me, especially considering how many verses suggest that God will spare his believers from from the wrath and trials of the tribulation. This is why I fall in the mid trib or pre trib camp.

 

[mdees88]

Don't know about you. But I'm excited! Can't wait! Even so, come quickly, Lord Jesus!

I am too. It is an exciting time to be alive!

I also think of how interesting a time it is, considering the advancement of technology. You know for the last 6000+ years, humans rode horses. That was their fastest means of transportation. Then in the last ~200 years we have progressed from horses to B-2 stealth bombers, lol (not even considering what they currently have that they haven't shown us yet). The rate of technology increase in the last ~50 years is literally mind blowing. It falls inline with end time prophecy too.

Daniel 12:4 ESV
[4] But you, Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”

 

[cubalaya]

Well, that certainly tears it then. If He's coming "at a time you do not expect," He can't very well come during this Feast of Trumpets when EVERYONE is expecting Him, now can He?

And as for this:


... okay, you could say that at this time the saved get "raptured" or caught up from the earth. But again, nothing secret about it. See again 1 Peter 3:10. His coming is so bright everything gets destroyed.

 

[BigBlueHen53]

No I do not think that Jesus is returning during the feast of trumpets, but the "rapture" (not the 2nd coming) "could" happen during the feast of trumpets. Most all who believe in an early "rapture" (pre or mid trib), believe it is an entirely seperate event from the "2nd coming" of Jesus.

1 Thes4:16-17 says we are caught up in the clouds to meet Jesus in the air (the rapture). The 2nd coming is when Jesus returns TO earth, actually steps foot on the Mount of olives, destroys evil, judges the earth, and rules for 1000 years.


The bible says that us believers will follow jesus down from heaven on horses when he returns to earth to make war and judge.


Revelation 19:11-14 ESV
[11] Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. [12] His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. [13] He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. [14] And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses.

Jude 1:14-15 ESV
[14] It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones, [15] to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness that they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”



If people believe in a post trib rapture (or no rapture), then they believe that us and all the dead will rise up to meet Christ in the air, then IMMEDIATELY hop on horses, turn around, and come right back to earth to make war.

That really doesn't make a lot of sense to me, especially considering how many verses suggest that God will spare his believers from from the wrath and trials of the tribulation. This is why I fall in the mid trib or pre trib camp.

Jesus returns to the earth at the beginning of the millenium to gather His saints (those who have believed on Him), both the living and the dead. We have established this from 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. But what about the unsaved, the wicked?

Revelation 20:5-9 KJV
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

The living wicked are destroyed by the brightness of His coming. They flee in terror from the wrath of the Lamb and cry out for the rocks to fall on them. The wicked dead miss the whole thing. They remain in their graves, with the exception of a few, i.e., "they also which pierced Him." Rev. 1:7. See also Jesus' prophecy, Matt. 26:64.

Rev. 20:5. This is the first resurrection.(referencing Rev. 20:4) [6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

WHY do the wicked remain in their graves for a thousand years? Because the righteous are in heaven doing something. Doing what? Reigning with God. Being priests of God. They'll be performing an act of judgment. 1 Cor. 6:3. We'll even be judging angels. Why this judgment? To be sure no mistakes were made. That no one was considered "wicked" or unrighteous" by mistake. That all God's judgments were accurate, fair and just. God wants transparency. So no one, through all eternity, will have any doubts about His justice, His righteousness.


[7] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

What releases Satan from his prison? The resurrection of the wicked. For a thousand years he's had no one to tempt, to deceive. The righteous have all been in heaven. The wicked have all been dead. This is the THIRD coming of Jesus to this earth. The wicked dead have not been destroyed, they have not received their final punishment, they've only been sleeping. Now Satan deceives them once more. They see Jesus coming with the Holy City, New Jerusalem, all the saints, and all the angels. But Satan convinces them they can overthrow it and take it by force. Listen:

Revelation 20:8-9 KJV
And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. [9] And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. This is described in Malachi 3.

It is here, after the 1,000 years, that the wicked are finally destroyed. There is more detail on this in a subsequent chapter of Revelation, as this is just an overview.

This happens a lot in Revelation. There is a general overview of events, then a more detailed description of the same events. Then the same events are described again in even more detail. Repeat and amplify, repeat and amplify. So to read Revelation as if it's told in a linear fashion results in confusion. There are, for example, seven bowls, seven vials, seven pitchers ... but they are really all the same things, not subsequent events.

Now I believe I am done sharing about this here. Anyone who'd like to discuss this in more detail is more than welcome to open a dialog with me in a pm. I LOVE discussing the Bible with anyone!