Question on failed egg

[mikewcgy]

Hi all, just completed our first ever round of egg incubating and we ended up with 7 chicks. Did our best to follow all the advice on the internet, much of it from posts here (so thank you!) and we feel like we did not too bad. We have learned a lot about more carefully selecting eggs etc., and will likely do less candling this time around, not use permanent marker on the shells (read that about 10 minutes too late!) and minimal incubator opening / touching of the eggs period. We had 20 or so eggs to start, on day 15 we candled and eliminated 8 of them. I cracked them to make sure we were correct that they were not actually housing an embryo.
Anyhow, of the 12 remaining, 7 hatched, and 4 never showed any signs of pipping. One however is quite odd in appearance and hence why I am here asking you all. I will attach a photo of this strange egg- what was strange is in a matter of hours this egg went from no apparent signs of activity at all to the state I found it in at 2am. It looks like the outer membrane is bulging out the sides. Is this what "shrink wrapping" or "drowning" end up looking like?
I have read other threads and most of the pics were from the "eggtopsy" which I havent worked up the mettle to do just yet.
Also adding one of our 7 little champs to lighten the mood of the post a little!
Thanks in advance all!!

 

[mikewcgy]

Hi there, welcome to BYC!

100% no that isn't what shrink wrapping or drowning look like.

All the info about carefully selecting eggs and such.. is good GENERAL rules of thumb but very few things are set in stone. Temperature being the MOST important.

First, congrats on your new babies!

Next, to the gritty Q and A..
What incubator, at what temperature and humidity? Verified by the bator or by calibrated equipment?

Eggs from your flock, elsewhere, or shipped?

Did they hatch on day 21? Upright, sideways, auto, or hand turned?

Was day 15 the first time you candled? Or why are you going to candle less?

When you cracked the eggs were there an that had developed but quit or they appeared to be infertile? If from your flock, hen to rooster ratio and age of birds please? Also breed?

I agree, I think that may have been a quitter that rotted.. this could be a version of exploding.. I've never yet had a blow out like that.. with hundreds of chicks under my wing. But there's a first time for everything! And them little buggers do play soccer with unhatched eggs sometimes.

The sniff test can be informative, indeed. If you smell funk.. sometimes rot or even death.. I have left the bator running long enough to see anything was still going to hatch in my early days to smell it.. Since I NOW actively breed and select hard for vigor in my stock AND have my hatch frame dialed in.. it's usually easier to identify embryo condition in lighter colored eggs and I can more confidently make the call to discard eggs sooner..

Undeveloped eggs and early quitters.. get boiled or scrambled and fed back to my animals instead of tossed. ONE time, I misread an egg and had an eye with an active heart beat looking at me when I cracked it open. But TOO wanted to verify my read. It was an awful experience.. BUT that was NOT developing at the same rate as others.. so MAYBE it was still the right call or would have just been a quitter closer to hatch or a weak link.. Basically this is what keeps chickens fun for me, the learning never stops!

Couple resources for hatch failure analysis including what day they quit and so on..

Hatchability Problem

Failure analysis starts around page 52, I think. This is a fantastic resource, bookmark it..

Incubation guide

Of course the place that started it all for me, right here in this very wonderful community..

A great resource, with some out dated links but still LOTS of valid stuff to review..

Hatching Eggs 101

Happy hatching, it's addictive!

ETA: I ALSO thought it looked like waste.. MGG is onto something! Is the chick still hatching and that's just zipping?!

The mystery has been solved, but you put forth so much effort here I wanted to answer some of your questions since it may be an opportunity to have some insights.

Brinsea Incubator with a 40ish capacity, auto egg turner, etc. We monitored the temp and humidity both with the brinsea unit and also with an ubibot (dedicated "smart sensor" that looks like a tile). The ubibot consistently reported higher humidity and lower temps than the brinsea, but in fairness the unit actually does say this is somewhat expected.

Yes the pipping did start exactly on the 21st day (Christmas day) however we did have some that did not hatch until early this morning. Overall everythintg seemed good. One of the chicks, who has very unique looking colors indeed (likely a cross between brown leghorn mama and RIR papa), was having trouble walking and kept sitting straight up and falling over backwards. I was suuuuper worried about this one although it didnt seem like "splayed leg" from the pics I saw. Anyhow, when I checked this morning she (or he, who knows lol) is now walking perfect! Feeling super fortunate there.

Regarding our current coop, we have 24 hens and 3 roosters. They were ordered from a breeder in July and despite being classed as pullets we still ended up with 3x roos and we didnt have the heart to get rid of them despite not having any plans to breed ourselves. Now I am glad we didnt! Although the battle for "top spot" is ever ongoing. Our roosters definitely go through phases of looking pretty rough lol.

As for this batch, we are planning to post a classified ad once we have an idea of how many roosters are in this bunch to see if any nearby farmers might be interested in adding some fresh blood to their flock. The last thing I want to do is have to cull especially since we wont know the sex for atleast a few weeks yet, but I think to preserve the healthy ratio of roos to hens, a likely highly difficult integration, and also to avoid any brother/sister mating we have decided we wont keep any roosters we breed come what may.

Another thing I believe may have been a factor with our number of failed eggs is simply that our hens are young and have only been laying for a couple of months, and still have small eggs. Hopefully by the next time we breed they will be a bit bigger. We do have quite a few "double yolker" eggs which are waaaay bigger, and we did incubate a couple of those to see but neither succeeded so I dont think we will do that again.

Oh and one other thing, of the 8 eggs we removed they mostly looked like your average egg. So I think they were simply not fertilized.

Boy it feels good to just talk about this stuff! As a long time reader of the site I didnt realize that posting onesself could feel good!

Thanks everyone for their effort on this thread

 

[EggSighted4Life]

So the egg never did crack. Almost an optical illusion lol.

Lol, I see it too though!

we have 24 hens and 3 roosters. They were ordered from a breeder in July and despite being classed as pullets we still ended up with 3x roos and we didnt have the heart to get rid of them despite not having any plans to breed ourselves. Now I am glad we didnt! Although the battle for "top spot" is ever ongoing.

The battle is mostly ongoing like that because they aren't roosters yet. Just hormonal cockerels, still equally matched.

Start making your plans now for the extra boys.. that's just mating but without any culling or selection is not truly breeding.. But wow, you're all in with a huge Brinsea!

Your backwards walking one.. known as a star gazer actually if they don't recover quickly and become able to stay upright. I dose nutirdrench or liquid bird vitamins dripped just below nostril, will be gobbled and swallowed when it roll around into the beak. I hold the chick in my hand with beak facing the bend in my forefinger to help direct the drip and peak together.. indicative of egg nutrition value.. Sometimes relative to storage time or conditions before setting, breeding flock intake, or individual nutrient absorption/distribution genetic issue. Highest hatch rate was shown at feed levels of 22% protein in studies..

Cockerels/rooster should not consume calcium levels < 3% contained in layer feed long term. It *can* (doesn't mean will) cause kidney issues including gout, failure, and possibly death.. MOST likely in those somehow also genetically predisposed. NO fear mongering! Just information.

Using a grower, flock raiser, all flock, non-medicated starter, (anything except breeder, layer, feather fixer) etc.. and offering oyster shell free choice nearby on the side for active layers.. WILL benefit ALL birds in the flock.. IF that's not already part of your routine and you have the resources to do so.. the main difference in ALL of them no matter what the company calls it are protein and calcium levels.. followed by amino acids and other vitamins/minerals.

Again, just for informational purposes.

 

[Fishychix]

So glad you joined us!

Congratulations on your new chicks! That egg looks like it may have been rotten. Did it have a smell at all?

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Is this what "shrink wrapping" or "drowning" end up looking like?

Hi there, welcome to BYC!

100% no that isn't what shrink wrapping or drowning look like.

All the info about carefully selecting eggs and such.. is good GENERAL rules of thumb but very few things are set in stone. Temperature being the MOST important.

First, congrats on your new babies!

Next, to the gritty Q and A..
What incubator, at what temperature and humidity? Verified by the bator or by calibrated equipment?

Eggs from your flock, elsewhere, or shipped?

Did they hatch on day 21? Upright, sideways, auto, or hand turned?

Was day 15 the first time you candled? Or why are you going to candle less?

When you cracked the eggs were there an that had developed but quit or they appeared to be infertile? If from your flock, hen to rooster ratio and age of birds please? Also breed?

I agree, I think that may have been a quitter that rotted.. this could be a version of exploding.. I've never yet had a blow out like that.. with hundreds of chicks under my wing. But there's a first time for everything! And them little buggers do play soccer with unhatched eggs sometimes.

The sniff test can be informative, indeed. If you smell funk.. sometimes rot or even death.. I have left the bator running long enough to see anything was still going to hatch in my early days to smell it.. Since I NOW actively breed and select hard for vigor in my stock AND have my hatch frame dialed in.. it's usually easier to identify embryo condition in lighter colored eggs and I can more confidently make the call to discard eggs sooner..

Undeveloped eggs and early quitters.. get boiled or scrambled and fed back to my animals instead of tossed. ONE time, I misread an egg and had an eye with an active heart beat looking at me when I cracked it open. But TOO wanted to verify my read. It was an awful experience.. BUT that was NOT developing at the same rate as others.. so MAYBE it was still the right call or would have just been a quitter closer to hatch or a weak link.. Basically this is what keeps chickens fun for me, the learning never stops!

Couple resources for hatch failure analysis including what day they quit and so on..

Hatchability Problem

Failure analysis starts around page 52, I think. This is a fantastic resource, bookmark it..

Incubation guide

Of course the place that started it all for me, right here in this very wonderful community..

A great resource, with some out dated links but still LOTS of valid stuff to review..

Hatching Eggs 101

Happy hatching, it's addictive!

ETA: I ALSO thought it looked like waste.. MGG is onto something! Is the chick still hatching and that's just zipping?!

 

[mikewcgy]

View attachment 2465205 So glad you joined us!

Congratulations on your new chicks! That egg looks like it may have been rotten. Did it have a smell at all?

Thanks for the quick reply! The incubator smells a little musty inside but not any more than I expected after all the chicks hatched. The rotten egg theory seems very probable as I think I read that when heated a rotten egg can "explode" on touch? And I know a couple of the later hatching chicks were leaning on the remaining eggs quite a bit.

 

[MGG]

That is embryo wastes, which is stuck to the chick's navel at hatch. It is usually left inside the egg, but in your case one of the chicks still had it stuck to his/her navel, and somehow hopped over the egg in question and got it stuck onto the egg in the process. I would guarantee you it will just rub right off. It's not from the egg it ended up on at all.
Here are some pics of embryo wastes. It's just what they excrete during the incubation process. (All my pics) It looks like the wastes on your egg just dried out. Mine are all pics taken right after hatch so they're still moist.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Excellent informative post, Eggcessive!

Eggsighted..

Thank you!

Yours was also.

 

[MGG]

Eggsighted..

Thank you!

Yours was also.

Oh my gosh, I'm sorry!
Autocorrect changed it

Anyway, I am 100% positive it is embryo wastes, but you posted some really great info! I actually bookmarked your post for future reference/links.

 

[Fishychix]

That is embryo wastes, which is stuck to the chick's navel at hatch. It is usually left inside the egg, but in your case one of the chicks still had it stuck to his/her navel, and somehow hopped over the egg in question and got it stuck onto the egg in the process. I would guarantee you it will just rub right off. It's not from the egg it ended up on at all.
Here are some pics of embryo wastes. It's just what they excrete during the incubation process. (All my pics) It looks like the wastes on your egg just dried out. Mine are all pics taken right after hatch so they're still moist.View attachment 2465237View attachment 2465238

Oh wow! Didnt see the “crack” didnt look tight until after I read your post and looked at the pictures again. Good call!