Question regarding crossing color genetics

MissLavender

Songster
Sep 21, 2018
151
224
126
Clarkdale, Arizona
So I am starting a breeding project with Qaib Hmoob Hmong birds. I am breeding for type and structure first, color later, but I am curious as to what my color crosses would produce. This is a landrace breed, so there is no standard as of yet.
So my question is this:
If I have a Spangled Golden Duckwing cockerel over black-red hens, what colors would the offspring be?
And what about the same cockerel over a silver laced hen? I'll post pictures for reference. Thank you in advance for your responses! 🙂View attachment 2007166View attachment 2007167View attachment 2007168View attachment 2007169View attachment 2007170View attachment 2007166
 

sylviethecochin

Free Ranging
Jun 14, 2017
5,234
10,637
691
Central PA
I think you have a mottled golden duckwing, rather than a spangled. Please correct me if I'm wrong, as I have only ever seen spangling at county fairs, etc., and have never owned or bred a spangled bird.

@nicalandia can "see" genetics much better than I can, thanks to years of experience and study, so I'll tag him rather than giving it my best guess.

What I can tell you is that any chicks out of your silver hen will be sexlinked gold females, silver males. This may be hard to see, however, as it looks like the rooster carries a dilution gene or two. Half of the chicks out of your black/gold hen will be black like she is.
 

MissLavender

Songster
Sep 21, 2018
151
224
126
Clarkdale, Arizona
I think you have a mottled golden duckwing, rather than a spangled. Please correct me if I'm wrong, as I have only ever seen spangling at county fairs, etc., and have never owned or bred a spangled bird.

@nicalandia can "see" genetics much better than I can, thanks to years of experience and study, so I'll tag him rather than giving it my best guess.

What I can tell you is that any chicks out of your silver hen will be sexlinked gold females, silver males. This may be hard to see, however, as it looks like the rooster carries a dilution gene or two. Half of the chicks out of your black/gold hen will be black like she is.
I think mottled is known as "spangled" when referring to gamefowl. Confusing, I know...lol
 

RoostersAreAwesome

Free Ranging
May 21, 2017
5,244
15,374
742
That rooster isn't mottled (or spangled), he just has silver leakage. The silver hen looks more penciled than laced, but her coloring is definitely mixed. Due to the mixed genetics of your birds, it's hard to he sure of what you'd get, but the mostly black hen will probably give you black offspring, though if she caries duckwing you could get some duckwing chicks. The silver hen could make more roosters like yours if she is really penciled, and hens that look like duckwing with some penciling (assuming the rooster is duckwing).
 

MissLavender

Songster
Sep 21, 2018
151
224
126
Clarkdale, Arizona
That rooster isn't mottled (or spangled), he just has silver leakage. The silver hen looks more penciled than laced, but her coloring is definitely mixed. Due to the mixed genetics of your birds, it's hard to he sure of what you'd get, but the mostly black hen will probably give you black offspring, though if she caries duckwing you could get some duckwing chicks. The silver hen could make more roosters like yours if she is really penciled, and hens that look like duckwing with some penciling (assuming the rooster is duckwing).
I've had several conversations with people about him and some say it's leakage and others say it's mottling. I am a beginner at this sort of thing, so all I can do is educate myself and make my best guess from there. So my question is this: what makes you think this is leakage as opposed to mottling, and how can I tell the difference in the future? 🙂
 

MissLavender

Songster
Sep 21, 2018
151
224
126
Clarkdale, Arizona
That rooster isn't mottled (or spangled), he just has silver leakage. The silver hen looks more penciled than laced, but her coloring is definitely mixed. Due to the mixed genetics of your birds, it's hard to he sure of what you'd get, but the mostly black hen will probably give you black offspring, though if she caries duckwing you could get some duckwing chicks. The silver hen could make more roosters like yours if she is really penciled, and hens that look like duckwing with some penciling (assuming the rooster is duckwing).
Also, the black copper hens are from the same bloodline as the rooster, which has mixed colors as the breeder is focusing mostly on maintaining their build and tight, hard, shiny feathers. The silver penciled hen is from a different bloodline altogether.
 

RoostersAreAwesome

Free Ranging
May 21, 2017
5,244
15,374
742
I've had several conversations with people about him and some say it's leakage and others say it's mottling. I am a beginner at this sort of thing, so all I can do is educate myself and make my best guess from there. So my question is this: what makes you think this is leakage as opposed to mottling, and how can I tell the difference in the future? 🙂
Mottled chickens have round white spots, not silver edging on feathers. They're also not only concentrated on one place unless that chicken is a carrier of mottling. Still, they'll look like spots rather then edging.
Some examples of mottling (two of those pictures are the same hen):
Screenshot_20200123-145001~2.jpgScreenshot_20200123-145354~2.jpg Screenshot_20200123-142344~2.jpgScreenshot_20200123-144850~2.jpg
Notice the size of shape of the spots and how they're spread over the whole body.

The following picture is a rooster with some leakage. It's only in some places in his wings.
Screenshot_20200123-144407~2.jpg

And here's a cockerel with silver leakage. It eventually disappeared as he grew and developed a fully black chest.
Screenshot_20200123-145814~2.jpg
 

MissLavender

Songster
Sep 21, 2018
151
224
126
Clarkdale, Arizona
Mottled chickens have round white spots, not silver edging on feathers. They're also not only concentrated on one place unless that chicken is a carrier of mottling. Still, they'll look like spots rather then edging.
Some examples of mottling (two of those pictures are the same hen):
View attachment 2009310View attachment 2009327 View attachment 2009348View attachment 2009334

Notice the size of shape of the spots and how they're spread over the whole body.

The following picture is a rooster with some leakage. It's only in some places in his wings.
View attachment 2009367

And here's a cockerel with silver leakage. It eventually disappeared as he grew and developed a fully black chest.
View attachment 2009368
Ah, okay. Mille Fleur=mottling. Looks more like falling snow on a solid background. :) So I'm most likely to get some black, some duckwing and probably some duckwing with incomplete silver pencilling.
 

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