Questions about BBR, Brown, Wheaten and Spangled

[Poultry Friend]

I have a flock of American Games. I have two roos- they both look BBR, but they might be wheaten. I have 5 hens- 4 look BBR and one looks wheaten. I have 10 pullets- one is just about to start laying. That older hen looks like she might be brown.

How can all these gene exist in the same flock? Is it an either or thing, or is one of these a modifier?

As far as I can see:

BBR= e+ (is this recessive?)

Wheaten= e^WH (Is this dominate, recessive, or recessive to some genes and dominate to others?)

Brown= e^b ( is this dominate or recessive to e+. )

How can you tell apart these three genes on the hens?

Can someone post images of these three genes as the hens will look?

I also have one spangled hen, but the term seems to mean something different then it does in other breeds. She does not have a black spot on the edge of each feather, but instead has some white feathers mixed in.

What would cause this pattern?

I do not have a camera, so I cannot post pictures.

 

[nicalandia]

as for the difference between wildtype(duckwing e+) Wheaten(eWh) and Brown(eb brown also called partridge brown)

I will post pics of the pairs, as you will see that all of the roosters will look Black Breasted Red(no difference between them) the difference is on the hens..

wheaten...



gold duckwing(e+ based on gold s+)



eb brown based birds(below birds are called partridge and have the pattern gene PG making the hens have this pattern)

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Wow! Thank you all so much everyone, however, I think my brain just exploded.

I think we are getting caught up in something I see in mouse genetics all the time.

One person from county A calls gene X = Peach
Person from Country B (in the south) calls this gene= Lemon
Person from Country B (in the north) calls this gene= Agouti

( ^Made all that up)

Anyhow, brown/red? What gene is this? Those hens looks a lot like mine. I also think my roos are, since I am pretty sure they do not have a duck-wing pattern.

You are mixing VARIETY (colour/colour pattern, aka APPEARANCE) names with the names of GENES. The nomenclature for genes is pretty standard worldwide. The name for varieties can differ significantly.

Brown red is a variety and is birchen based plus gold: E^R/E^R s+/s+

E^R based birds are crow winged (no ground colour wing triangle).

 

[Poultry Friend]

Anyone? Anything would be helpful!

 

[questions543]

bump

 

[draye]

I have a flock of American Games. I have two roos- they both look BBR, but they might be wheaten. I have 5 hens- 4 look BBR and one looks wheaten. I have 10 pullets- one is just about to start laying. That older hen looks like she might be brown.

How can all these gene exist in the same flock? Is it an either or thing, or is one of these a modifier?

As far as I can see:

BBR= e+ (is this recessive?)

Wheaten= e^WH (Is this dominate, recessive, or recessive to some genes and dominate to others?)

Brown= e^b ( is this dominate or recessive to e+. )

How can you tell apart these three genes on the hens?

Can someone post images of these three genes as the hens will look?

I also have one spangled hen, but the term seems to mean something different then it does in other breeds. She does not have a black spot on the edge of each feather, but instead has some white feathers mixed in.

What would cause this pattern?

I do not have a camera, so I cannot post pictures.

Try posting on the Game thread.
Good luck.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

I have a flock of American Games. I have two roos- they both look BBR, but they might be wheaten. I have 5 hens- 4 look BBR and one looks wheaten. I have 10 pullets- one is just about to start laying. That older hen looks like she might be brown.

How can all these gene exist in the same flock? Is it an either or thing, or is one of these a modifier?

As far as I can see:

BBR= e+ (is this recessive?)

Wheaten= e^WH (Is this dominate, recessive, or recessive to some genes and dominate to others?)

Brown= e^b ( is this dominate or recessive to e+. )

How can you tell apart these three genes on the hens?

Can someone post images of these three genes as the hens will look?

I also have one spangled hen, but the term seems to mean something different then it does in other breeds. She does not have a black spot on the edge of each feather, but instead has some white feathers mixed in.

What would cause this pattern?

I do not have a camera, so I cannot post pictures.

The alleles of the E gene have the following dominance: E > E^R > e^Wh > e+ > e^b However, add in sufficient melanizers and e^wh becomes the most recessive. Generally extended black, birchen and wheaten are thought of as dominant with wildtype and brown thought of as recessive. BUT, it really depends on the pair that are present in a bird as to which one will display.

Wheaten hens are a sort of tawny beige colouring (those words are a description, not a variety naming), and look like none of the others. Feathersite should have lots of photos of all these varieties. If they aren't in the American Game page, try the OEG pages. The breed may be different, but the variety appearanc is not.

Spangled in games is entirely different than in hamburgs; neither the same variety nor the same genetics. A spangled game is BBR plus mottling. A spangled hamburg does not have mottling, At the moment my books that list the genotypes for varieties is hiding, so I can't list the complete set, but it is not BBR based; I think it is E based, and has number of other genes including Db that cause the black spangles.

 

[Poultry Friend]

I am glad you said that. My spangled bird does look a lot more like mottled (white spots irregularly throughout feathers) then true spangled (black spots on the edge of feathers).

So can a hen have two copies of these genes or since they have a 'w' gene, they can't carry more then one copy?

 

[nicalandia]

So can a hen have two copies of these genes or since they have a 'w' gene, they can't carry more then one copy?

hens can only carry one copy of a sex linked gene at a time, say if you cross a chocolate(recessive sex linked choc) rooster to a black hen, all of the boys will be black(Choc+/cho they have one copy of wildtype dominant sex linked none chocolate gene Choc+/ and they also have one copy of recessive sex linked chocolate choc, this makes them all black)

but ALL of the hens will be chocolate, due to the fact their only Z gene is coming from its already chocolate father(choc/choc)

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

I am glad you said that. My spangled bird does look a lot more like mottled (white spots irregularly throughout feathers) then true spangled (black spots on the edge of feathers).

So can a hen have two copies of these genes or since they have a 'w' gene, they can't carry more then one copy?

None of the genes involved with either type of spangling is sex-linked. Both varieties are named "spangled."