Questions about dead embryo

[FrankHomestead]

Dead embryo Day 14.
I candled early this morning...I could see lots of movement in all but this one...and this one showed NO veins anymore...and no movement. I watched it for what seemed like forever to be sure it had died before removing it from the bator...lol yes this is my 1st hatch
I don't expect anyone to be able to pinpoint what went wrong by the photo..but if you can I'd love to know. Also can anyone tell how many days along death occurred? I discovered this condition today, day 14. I hadn't candled before that in 2-3 days.
I have another egg I'm concerned about and will try my best to get a clear picture tonight. TIA my friends!

 

[ChickNanny13]

I've read to candle at 7 days, 14 days & 18th to be the last as it's "lockdown", hatching around 21 - 24 days. No clue but others with experience will peep in, very interesting.
Lets see if we can get some help ... @Pyxis @EggSighted4Life @Lady of McCamley

 

[Lady of McCamley]

I candle at about 5 days then again at about 10 days. I tend not to candle within the final days unless the eggs are taking too long or if I have concerned the eggs were disturbed. I use brooding hens, so things are a little different for me. (The hens get pretty darn touchy those last few days, so I prefer not to disturb them...better for them and my fingers.)

As to death, I can't tell you when it died. I'm not that good. However, I can tell you that it is not a "quitter" as it would just have a blood ring. Those quit within the first 3 days after start leaving a simple blood ring.

It has been dead awhile, meaning it has decayed, but I don't think it looks as if it had developed according to schedule. At day 14, there would be a lot more chick growth. My guess is that it died about day 9. (I'll link some photos below for estimation).

There could be SO many reasons for a chick to die. It could be anything from egg position in the incubator which caused lower temperature (often the cause of a death of a started chick) to genetic difficulties to simply structural difficulties.

I would note where it was in the incubator and check for cold spots.

If you've only got a couple that don't make it out of a batch (dozen or so), that's pretty good percentage of hatch. 80% is pretty good hatch rate. 90 to 100% is the goal, but often you don't make that. Less expensive incubators often average around 50% as do shipped eggs. (Then you get a sneaky broody who hatches 110% after she's hid an egg under a wing and you get 10 chicks when you only set 9 eggs!)

My thoughts.
LofMc
http://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/1459/embryonic-development-day-by-day/

The above link did the trick, but I love this video so much, I wanted to share it too.

Here's an incubation failure chart:
https://extension.illinois.edu/eggs/res24-00.html

 

[FrankHomestead]

I know I'm "supposed" to candle less. However I'm keeping a close eye on development due to a few factors. First, these eggs WERE shipped. I allowed them to rest point down for 28 hours before incubating them. Then day 1 in the bator my 3 yr old bumped it sending all the eggs to roll around. Then day 2 my son bumped it and they rolled again. So I thought, well I've picked a horrible spot. So..I thought I should move it. Simple, right? I moved like a sloth..keeping the bator as still and level as I possibly could. Didn't matter. You'd think I was flinging the thing across the room. The eggs rolled around everywhere bumping into each other!!! Oh dear lawd!!! After that I said well, not getting any chicks at all now!!! I continued to manage the bator just IN CASE I had some soldiers in there. Day 8 was my first candling, and I had 6 viable eggs out of 14!!! I couldn't believe it! I was ecstatic. But still worried. Then when I candled today, this embryo was less than half the size of the other eggs and clear through the rest of it, so obviously removed it. Now I'm down to 5. But I have to candle again because I'm concerned that one egg has the blood ring, but the embryo was still very active in there. And I just can't remove a live embryo from the incubator. I'm wondering though why I never smelled the egg this post is about..? It does look like decay. Is the yolk supposed to be scrambled like that? I thought they absorb the yolk the last few days. Oh and I love the video!

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Blood ring only happens during the first three days as the embryo quits producing a blood ring rather than a small embryo.

Totally get the incubator bumping. My first (and only full) artificial incubation had the same incident. We did it for the kids 4H unit with 2 small mini-incubators. On about day 7, they tipped one of the small incubators over dropping all 3 eggs on the floor and then grabbing for that sent the other over too as the whole shelf came down.

I instinctively grabbed for the closest tumbling incubator and caught the dome lid with an egg still in it that literally zoomed, zipped, zipped, thumped around and around the dome until slowing settling at the bottom.

Oh well, I thought they were all a lost but put the 2 whole eggs left including this obviously "scrambled" egg in the remaining incubator.

Believe it or not, both eggs developed, and the one that zipped zoomed was the only one that hatched. Honestly I would have thought the bird would have been completely addled, with parts in wrong places, but it was totally fine.

You won't get a prime hatch rate, but you've obviously got things developing. At this point it is management of temp and humidity.

Good luck! And post your results. We'll rejoice or cry with you.
LofMc

 

[007Sean]

I candle at about 5 days then again at about 10 days. I tend not to candle within the final days unless the eggs are taking too long or if I have concerned the eggs were disturbed. I use brooding hens, so things are a little different for me. (The hens get pretty darn touchy those last few days, so I prefer not to disturb them...better for them and my fingers.)

As to death, I can't tell you when it died. I'm not that good. However, I can tell you that it is not a "quitter" as it would just have a blood ring. Those quit within the first 3 days after start leaving a simple blood ring.

It has been dead awhile, meaning it has decayed, but I don't think it looks as if it had developed according to schedule. At day 14, there would be a lot more chick growth. My guess is that it died about day 9. (I'll link some photos below for estimation).

There could be SO many reasons for a chick to die. It could be anything from egg position in the incubator which caused lower temperature (often the cause of a death of a started chick) to genetic difficulties to simply structural difficulties.

I would note where it was in the incubator and check for cold spots.

If you've only got a couple that don't make it out of a batch (dozen or so), that's pretty good percentage of hatch. 80% is pretty good hatch rate. 90 to 100% is the goal, but often you don't make that. Less expensive incubators often average around 50% as do shipped eggs. (Then you get a sneaky broody who hatches 110% after she's hid an egg under a wing and you get 10 chicks when you only set 9 eggs!)

My thoughts.
LofMc
http://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/1459/embryonic-development-day-by-day/

The above link did the trick, but I love this video so much, I wanted to share it too.

Here's an incubation failure chart:
https://extension.illinois.edu/eggs/res24-00.html

I saw that video over a year ago....was tempted to try that method of incubation. Might try it this spring, just for my own curiosity. Thanks for putting the vid back on the burner!

 

[FrankHomestead]

@Lady of McCamley omg I didn't know that about blood rings!! Of all the info I read on them...you'd think they'd add that little tid bit! Lol! Well I just candled againnnn and all 5 are feisty little boogers!! Even saw a head and beak silhouette!!! And low and behold...this "blood ring" I saw this morning has magically turned into a spider web of blood vessels ok so now I'm not going to touch them except for turning!!! Should I candle just before lockdown or just leave them be since I've already handled them obsessively? Lol
Btw thank you everyone for your knowledge and support!! Much appreciated!

 

[Lady of McCamley]

You are at day 14, honestly, I put them in, turn as needed, and leave them alone as much as possible.

Hoping all 5 hatch
Lofmc

 

[FrankHomestead]

You are at day 14, honestly, I put them in, turn as needed, and leave them alone as much as possible.

Hoping all 5 hatch
Lofmc

Got it, then that's what I'm gonna do! I'll update you guys in a few days!!

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I guess I'm a little late late to this party...

But wanna say thank you so much for inviting me @ChickNanny13 , this is a great thread with opportunity to learn and improve my skill. Candling and identifying is where I definitely need the most practice.

Great stories guys, amazing what CAN happen!

I'm currently expecting Christmas Eve and New Years day hatches..

Hope yours goes great!