Quick (?) Question on Genetics of White (recessive/dominant) of this particular bird

[RememberTheWay]

I think I have a very basic understanding of how recessive vs dominant white worms in chickens. I have a couple hens that were the offspring of a white leghorn (understand they are dominant white) hen to an Americana rooster (definitely had the blue egg gene because the hens all lay blue eggs now) but most of the offspring came out paint (white with random black and some variation of beards/muffs etc) but one of them came out completely white.

My question is are these paint/all white hens dominant white or are the recessive white? Or is their really no way to know with the Americana roo being the father? I am currently Incubating eggs from the offspring hens being bred to an Ameraucana (not SOP color) roo to see what I get from this cross. I'm guessing they are going to be paint...but we will see

Also- are their any ways to visually tell whether a bird is more likely dominant or recessive white?

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Following. I want to know the answer too. I wish I could tell you, but I'm not confident enough in my dominant vs recessive white other than it typically covers only black as it inhibits the melanin. How you got paint...I want to know too.

LofMc

 

[RememberTheWay]

Just for reference - this is the rooster that was paired with the leghorn hens

 

[Amer]

Dominant white. Heterozygous dominant white is paint. The solid white is most likely a “spotless” paint, but I can’t rule out that the easter egger and Leghorn carry recessive white so it might be both dominant and recessive white.

 

[RememberTheWay]

Dominant white. Heterozygous dominant white is paint. The solid white is most likely a “spotless” paint, but I can’t rule out that the easter egger and Leghorn carry recessive white so it might be both dominant and recessive white.

The reasoning for this question was spurred personally by Ermine Ameraucana's. LOVE the color, not so much the price for day olds and hens. I would like to breed Ermine Ameraucana's and have pondered on how to do so without just buying ermine Ameraucana's. From what I understand they are essentially "Paint" Ameraucana's no different then paint silkies? If that is correct then I would need to introduce dominant white into the line somehow. Probably would still need to find some black Ameraucana's but I think I can find those locally. Anyways, the EE were here and had already been bred before I obtained them. I've had those bird for about a year and when I was thinking about the Ermines I remembered that the white EEs I had had been started by crossing a leghorn into that line. Which should mean that those birds already have dominant white and maybe I could use them for this project? They have muffs and beards and at least one of them has decent type but the leg color is off on both hens and the comb is wrong on one of them. I would think I could fix those things though. Is it possible to create a lavender paint bird? I know chocolate paint is. I am also considering starting projects for those as well.

 

[Amer]

The reasoning for this question was spurred personally by Ermine Ameraucana's. LOVE the color, not so much the price for day olds and hens. I would like to breed Ermine Ameraucana's and have pondered on how to do so without just buying ermine Ameraucana's. From what I understand they are essentially "Paint" Ameraucana's no different then paint silkies? If that is correct then I would need to introduce dominant white into the line somehow. Probably would still need to find some black Ameraucana's but I think I can find those locally. Anyways, the EE were here and had already been bred before I obtained them. I've had those bird for about a year and when I was thinking about the Ermines I remembered that the white EEs I had had been started by crossing a leghorn into that line. Which should mean that those birds already have dominant white and maybe I could use them for this project? They have muffs and beards and at least one of them has decent type but the leg color is off on both hens and the comb is wrong on one of them. I would think I could fix those things though. Is it possible to create a lavender paint bird? I know chocolate paint is. I am also considering starting projects for those as well.

You could use them for an Ermine EE project. They don’t necessarily need to be Ameraucanas if you don’t want.
Just selectively breed for more black spotting to get a more “ermine” looking bird.
Lavender paint is possible.

 

[RememberTheWay]

So at this point with more paint EE eggs in my incubator from these hens and the EE roo. What would be my best plan of action? What should I be breeding these hens to? A black rooster? I'm growing out two true lavender ameraucanas right now, but I also have mottled Houdans. Is it hard to breed crest back out? What happens when you breed two ermine birds together? I thought paint to paint got you paint Everytime but ermine breeders don't seem to be doing that...I see them using white to black usually. Is there a difference in colors you get?

 

[Amer]

A black or lavender Ameraucana would work.
It would not be hard to breed the crest back out but you’d get less blue eggs.
Paint plus paint gives 50 percent paint, 25 percent black, 25 percent white.
White to black gives all paint offspring but breeding paint to paint has the advantage of you being able to select for better paint coloring. With white to black you don’t know what genes the black and white have.
In many respects it is like breeding blue black splash.

 

[RememberTheWay]

A black or lavender Ameraucana would work.
It would not be hard to breed the crest back out but you’d get less blue eggs.
Paint plus paint gives 50 percent paint, 25 percent black, 25 percent white.
White to black gives all paint offspring but breeding paint to paint has the advantage of you being able to select for better paint coloring. With white to black you don’t know what genes the black and white have.
In many respects it is like breeding blue black splash.

Thank you for the assistance. Really appreciate it! Trying to keep all these chats and rules straight in my brain is proving rather difficult in practice! Lol. So what happens if you breed lavender from another breed as well? Say I have two lavender ameraucanas hens because neither chick end up being a rooster? But maybe I have a lavender Easter Egger roo or even a lavender Orpington roo.... How hard is it to breed back to the standard at the point you've introduced two or even three new breeds to the line?

I'm considering a few different breeding projects regarding my birds. Mainly my silkies, Cochin Bantams, and Easter eggers and Ameraucanas. Mostly for developing specific colors.

Another question I've been pondering though and would love to hear your inputs on is this- I've seen some pretty strict guidelines regarding what is and what isn't an Ameraucana. My question is whether or not it is possible to start with birds that are technically Easter eggers and breed them in such a way that eventually you have a line of true Ameraucana's?

 

[NatJ]

Another question I've been pondering though and would love to hear your inputs on is this- I've seen some pretty strict guidelines regarding what is and what isn't an Ameraucana. My question is whether or not it is possible to start with birds that are technically Easter eggers and breed them in such a way that eventually you have a line of true Ameraucana's?

Yes, that should be possible, although it might take a lot of work, depending on how far off the Easter Eggers were when you started. What you are talking about is similar to the way Ameraucanas were developed in the first place, starting with a set of chickens that have a mixture of traits and selectively breeding toward one consistent result (Ameraucanas as they are today.)

If it looks like an Ameraucana in all respects, lays the correct color of eggs, and breeds true for all those traits, then it is an Ameraucana.