Rabbits and Poultry

[happyhens1972]

GORGEOUS BUNNIES!!!

That is an awesome rabbit coop you have put together. Did you spay/neuter yours?

Thank you! We love the 'coop' and so do the buns. The chickens have an identical one adjacent...

And yes, both buns are neutered. They are pets only, not for breeding. Tale of Tails Rabbitry, above had some very valid points about the disease issue too. I have never had any problems at all, keeping rabbits on the ground, in fact I have always done it and never had them die as a result but again, letting them share the same pen with chickens, would give rise to a much heightened risk of coccidiosis.

As for the colony remarks, again, I would agree. My comment regarding them being colony animals was not meant to infer they are best kept as a colony, I merely meant they are best kept in at least pairs. They need rabbit company. I totally agree that if anyone were to keep a colony, they would need a lot of space, tunnels, hidey holes etc...something that mimicked the actual habitat of a colony. People often don't realise just how vicious rabbits can be. They see cute fluffy bunnies and do not imagine them ripping lumps out of each other over territory, space, sleeping areas, food, mates etc. The power in those back legs is enough to disembowel if the mood takes them and they are also not averse to using them on humans! My personal experience has told me to keep rabbits in neutered male/female pairs, in a good sized territory, with multiple feed points and places to retreat and with things to entertain them....nibbles, foraging trays, toys etc

 

[Bunnylady]

People often don't realise just how vicious rabbits can be. They see cute fluffy bunnies and do not imagine them ripping lumps out of each other over territory, space, sleeping areas, food, mates etc.

You overlooked "castrating each other, and chewing each other's ears and faces off."

Rabbits thrive and do much better with a friend.

Having had several sister or mother/daughter pairs and trios that wound up with one chewing the others to a bloody mess, sometimes after years of living together, all I can say is that while one may have been thriving, the other clearly wasn't. They get along until they don't, and whether that will be a lifetime, or merely a few days or weeks, is hard to tell. Even the House Rabbit Society recognizes that some rabbits simply cannot live peaceably with other rabbits. At least one study of wild rabbits resulted in the conclusion that rabbits are not naturally social, but wind up living together simply because they have to due to habitat restrictions. Rather than preferring the company of others, the wild rabbits more or less tolerate it.

 

[featheredplanets]

You overlooked "castrating each other, and chewing each other's ears and faces off."



Having had several sister or mother/daughter pairs and trios that wound up with one chewing the others to a bloody mess, sometimes after years of living together, all I can say is that while one may have been thriving, the other clearly wasn't. They get along until they don't, and whether that will be a lifetime, or merely a few days or weeks, is hard to tell. Even the House Rabbit Society recognizes that some rabbits simply cannot live peaceably with other rabbits. At least one study of wild rabbits resulted in the conclusion that rabbits are not naturally social, but wind up living together simply because they have to due to habitat restrictions. Rather than preferring the company of others, the wild rabbits more or less tolerate it.

I’m completely aware some rabbits are just solitary, in my original statement I did advise that the OP seek vet advice if they bought a single rabbit, a small animal vet is much more educated on animal behaviour than me. I was simply regurgitating what the RSPCA has fed me. Personally I’d much rather have a bonded pair, Male and female, than see my boy alone outside all the time. I can’t have him indoors due to the dogs and he’s done so much better since I integrated his female.

 

[JaeG]

My Mum had a giant flemish female sharing her run with two little pekin (cochin) bantams (separate houses). Dear Lucy tolerated those funny looking little chickens until the day she died and she was an older rabbit when Peep and Diamond came to live next to her and share her run. They'd often sit cuddled up to her, grooming her. It was very sweet.

I don't think Mum ever had a problem with them eating rabbit food, but they loved exploring her house for bugs. Lucy was far too big to fit in the chickens little house and get at their food. Those two little hens would go looking for her in her old house for ages after she died.

As is so often the case it all depends on individual personalities as to whether it will work or not.

 

[Bunnylady]

. I was simply regurgitating what the RSPCA has fed me.

Yes, I know, and I am sorry to seem so cranky. But like any other political pressure group, the RSPCA comes into any situation with an ax to grind, and bases policy on opinion, rather than unsentimental science. Just look at their name - the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. Most people who consider themselves animal lovers have an aversion to being cruel, but "cruelty" itself is constantly being redefined. I know of at least one group who consider any type of "pet" interaction cruel, just because it is unnatural for animals to be kept in captivity.

As is so often the case it all depends on individual personalities as to whether it will work or not.

Exactly. I get so tired of people declaring how cruel keeping a single rabbit is, because rabbits are "naturally" social, then explaining the elaborate, step-by-step process that is frequently necessary to get them to accept each other (starting with getting their hormones out of the way by neutering, a very unnatural procedure!), and including the statement that if you mess this up, these rabbits may never learn to get along . . . and I'm like, "if they are simply dying for the company of their own kind, why do you have to work so hard to keep them from killing each other?" Can they not see the contradiction in their own words?

Yes, a lot of rabbits are social - because we are making them that way. We want them to be sociable with us, and it is absolutely adorable to see them snuggling and grooming each other, so we are selecting for animals that are like this, particularly in the breeds more often kept as pets. But no one should feel pressured to get multiple rabbits, or made to feel guilty for housing rabbits separately who don't get along (believe it or not, I have seen someone who had two rabbits that fought when together be advised to get two more rabbits to live with the two that don't get along 'because it's cruel to keep a rabbit by itself.' What happens if those two don't work out - do they have to keep getting more rabbits until they manage to get everybody paired up? Where does it end?)

MY apologies to the OP for the rant. There are lots of other threads on this same subject here in Other Pets and Livestock; some people have had rabbits housed with chickens for years with no issues. Some have tried it, and have had the rabbits attack the chickens, some have had rabbits injured by the chickens; you never know how it will work. The one issue most people agree on is the food - while rabbit food is harmless for the chickens (if they even bother with it), it is generally considered not a good idea for rabbits to have access to chicken feed, even though they seem to love it. My opinion on this subject is the same as that of housing rabbits together - you can try it, but understand that it comes with risks, and be prepared to separate if problems develop.

 

[JaeG]

Yes, dear Lucy had seen off (Mum's pretty sure Lucy kicked them badly enough) two neutered male suitors (at different times). Everyone tells you they are happiest in pairs! But she was fine and friendly with two bantam chickens.

Thanks @Bunnylady I'll be passing that info on and keeping it in mind for the future.

 

[CapricornFarm]

I would be concerned about long eared rabbits in cold areas. I gave my friend an English Lop and she kept him in an outside coop in TN. He did not live very long and i think it was the large surface area of the ears causing heat loss.

 

[matt14132]

Yes, I know, and I am sorry to seem so cranky. But like any other political pressure group, the RSPCA comes into any situation with an ax to grind, and bases policy on opinion, rather than unsentimental science. Just look at their name - the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. Most people who consider themselves animal lovers have an aversion to being cruel, but "cruelty" itself is constantly being redefined. I know of at least one group who consider any type of "pet" interaction cruel, just because it is unnatural for animals to be kept in captivity.



Exactly. I get so tired of people declaring how cruel keeping a single rabbit is, because rabbits are "naturally" social, then explaining the elaborate, step-by-step process that is frequently necessary to get them to accept each other (starting with getting their hormones out of the way by neutering, a very unnatural procedure!), and including the statement that if you mess this up, these rabbits may never learn to get along . . . and I'm like, "if they are simply dying for the company of their own kind, why do you have to work so hard to keep them from killing each other?" Can they not see the contradiction in their own words?

Yes, a lot of rabbits are social - because we are making them that way. We want them to be sociable with us, and it is absolutely adorable to see them snuggling and grooming each other, so we are selecting for animals that are like this, particularly in the breeds more often kept as pets. But no one should feel pressured to get multiple rabbits, or made to feel guilty for housing rabbits separately who don't get along (believe it or not, I have seen someone who had two rabbits that fought when together be advised to get two more rabbits to live with the two that don't get along 'because it's cruel to keep a rabbit by itself.' What happens if those two don't work out - do they have to keep getting more rabbits until they manage to get everybody paired up? Where does it end?)

MY apologies to the OP for the rant. There are lots of other threads on this same subject here in Other Pets and Livestock; some people have had rabbits housed with chickens for years with no issues. Some have tried it, and have had the rabbits attack the chickens, some have had rabbits injured by the chickens; you never know how it will work. The one issue most people agree on is the food - while rabbit food is harmless for the chickens (if they even bother with it), it is generally considered not a good idea for rabbits to have access to chicken feed, even though they seem to love it. My opinion on this subject is the same as that of housing rabbits together - you can try it, but understand that it comes with risks, and be prepared to separate if problems develop.

No need to apologize. I love reading all of this stuff. It keeps me busy when its slow at work. (I work overnights, which is why I have a hard time keeping up with the conversations cause Im usually asleep when all the action is happening lol.)

Its really awesome that everyone shares their experiences and that there is no cookie cutter way to do anything in animal husbandry.
An example; some people prefer to use nipple waterers for their birds and some prefer the old fashioned metal drinkers. Each have worked well for people in certain climates and some not.
As is the case here with rabbits. Some people have done well with just one and some people have done much better keeping them in groups.

I guess maybe a lot depends on how much time you spend with your rabbit and thinking about how much attention you might be able to give to it versus how much more attention one of its own kind would be able to.

 

[matt14132]

I would be concerned about long eared rabbits in cold areas. I gave my friend an English Lop and she kept him in an outside coop in TN. He did not live very long and i think it was the large surface area of the ears causing heat loss.

Good point, that crossed my mind too. I could see a disaster if the ears were to ever drag in any snow and/or get wet, the way the wind whips in my area, probably a bad combination in sub freezing temps....

 

[Tale of Tails Rabbitry]

The only thing I would add is that @Bunnylady has a point about people making rabbits sociable. Animals do adapt according to their temperament as a breed and as an individual to given situations. However, I would suggest that having a next door neighbor you can barely tolerate or even one that makes your life miserable can seem so peaceful from the street view. There is a reason for the saying "fences make good neighbors." All my rabbits will lie next to each other without incident...when there is cage wire between them.

I have watched a wild rabbit, a doe, chase others out of its territory many a time in my family's pastures. The wild rabbits may eat somewhat close together when food sources are limited, but I have not seen that it is in the temperament of a full-grown rabbit to share its space, not even opposite sexes or with their own kits once weaned.