Raising pullets and cockerels separately?

[lazy gardener]

Nor am I intending to ruffle feathers. I am not at all familiar with the nutrient of Cassava, or even for that matter, don't have a clue what the protein content is of a banana. I could only wish to have your climate to work with as I imagine it is much more hospitable to mine, and more condusive to growing feed to keep the flock nurtured. I was looking at it from my paradigm. When I stated sub-standard, I was referring to low in protein. When some people up in my neck of the woods talk about feeding scraps to their chickens, they are referring to getting day old bread (white... ie... not much nutrient to be had in it) which is stale. That often becomes the mainstay of some redneck flocks. Many of the old timers finished their roos off on corn, (which is low protein, and would not be appropriate for a flock ration) You asked for opinion. I gave it. Did not mean to offend. I continue to say that what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Also realizing that everyone has their own goals and husbandry style. What works for me might not work for you, and vice versa.

 

[triplepurpose]

Nor am I intending to ruffle feathers.  I am not at all familiar with the nutrient of Cassava, or even for that matter, don't have a clue what the protein content is of a banana.  I could only wish to have your climate to work with as I imagine it is much more hospitable to mine, and more condusive to growing feed to keep the flock nurtured.  I was looking at it from my paradigm.  When I stated sub-standard, I was referring to low in protein.  When some people up in my neck of the woods talk about feeding scraps to their chickens, they are referring to getting day old bread (white... ie... not much nutrient to be had in it) which is stale.  That often becomes the mainstay of some redneck flocks.  Many of the old timers finished their roos off on corn, (which is low protein, and would not be appropriate for a flock ration)  You asked for opinion.  I gave it.  Did not mean to offend.  I continue to say that what's good for the goose is good for the gander.  Also realizing that everyone has their own goals and husbandry style.  What works for me might not work for you, and vice versa.

Fair enough! Thank you.

 

[aart]

Quote: Ahh...thus the prices.
But withyour climate you could grow a ton of stuff for them.

Lots of 'feral' chickens there too, right?

 

[triplepurpose]

Update on our actual plans, in case anyone is interested:

We moved the young 6 wk old Doms we are raising now as a new foundation flock to a new spot down in the orchard and divided them into two moveable fold pens or "tractors", so they now have more area of ground per bird, on mixed terrain of grass, fallen leaves and dirt over which they will be moved daily or 2x/day. six pullets are in one, seven cockerels are in the other. Also in the "pullet" pen are an additional three of the most promising cockerels for future breeding (ultimately only keeping one or two but hedging bets with extras). I mixed up some fresh FF wet mash in two containers--the "pullet" and "breeder" one containing the premium OG starter/grower, with a small amount of bananas and old bread, and the "cull cockerel" one containing the more affordable OG layer, mixed with a higher ratio of bananas, old bread, and stale homemade banana bread (from whole grain, home-ground flour). The excess cockerels will be culled in a month to six weeks and the breeders/layers later moved to an expansive, movable orchard pasture currently in the works.

They are currently enjoying their new stomping grounds immensely with all the new leaf litter and greenery to go through!

Seemed for us like the best compromise between the needs of selection and frugal production, what with the high ratio of cockerels in this group especially. But we shall see how it goes and readily adjust or alter things in the future as needed.

(Please note: Before anyone chastizes me for feeding layer to young birds, since i know many people have strong opinions on this, know that we have done our homework. we also have done this many times before when layer was the only OG feed we could get, or when we raised pullets in a mixed coop with layers. I dont believe it has ever had any signifacant ill effect. In particular because the excess calcium is offset by the diversity of the diet--since when a bird is also eating a significant amount of greens, kitchen scraps, bugs, and farm foods the actual ration does not contain 4% calcium. It is not optimal, but when when its the only feed available or when economics preclude spending twice the price on grower, imho its use as outlined is harmless.)

Thanks all for the feedback!

 

[triplepurpose]

Ahh...thus the prices.
But withyour climate you could grow a ton of stuff for them.

Lots of 'feral' chickens there too, right?

Yes, commodity prices are brutal here. But simply reflecy the cost of course. One reason so many of us are pushing hard for more local food production.

Yes the wild chickens are a real vermin problem. They are quite edible though and I wish more people would do so. But who knows, they may serve as valuable genetic material for breeding projects one day, and they also make excellent broody hens.

 

[lazy gardener]

Update on our actual plans, in case anyone is interested:

We moved the young 6 wk old Doms we are raising now as a new foundation flock to a new spot down in the orchard and divided them into two moveable fold pens or "tractors", so they now have more area of ground per bird, on mixed terrain of grass, fallen leaves and dirt over which they will be moved daily or 2x/day. six pullets are in one, seven cockerels are in the other. Also in the "pullet" pen are an additional three of the most promising cockerels for future breeding (ultimately only keeping one or two but hedging bets with extras). I mixed up some fresh FF wet mash in two containers--the "pullet" and "breeder" one containing the premium OG starter/grower, with a small amount of bananas and old bread, and the "cull cockerel" one containing the more affordable OG layer, mixed with a higher ratio of bananas, old bread, and stale homemade banana bread (from whole grain, home-ground flour). The excess cockerels will be culled in a month to six weeks and the breeders/layers later moved to an expansive, movable orchard pasture currently in the works.

They are currently enjoying their new stomping grounds immensely with all the new leaf litter and greenery to go through!

Seemed for us like the best compromise between the needs of selection and frugal production, what with the high ratio of cockerels in this group especially. But we shall see how it goes and readily adjust or alter things in the future as needed.

(Please note: Before anyone chastizes me for feeding layer to young birds, since i know many people have strong opinions on this, know that we have done our homework. we also have done this many times before when layer was the only OG feed we could get, or when we raised pullets in a mixed coop with layers. I dont believe it has ever had any signifacant ill effect. In particular because the excess calcium is offset by the diversity of the diet--since when a bird is also eating a significant amount of greens, kitchen scraps, bugs, and farm foods the actual ration does not contain 4% calcium. It is not optimal, but when when its the only feed available or when economics preclude spending twice the price on grower, imho its use as outlined is harmless.)

Thanks all for the feedback!

You and I are in full agreement regarding the benign nature of layer feed. While I won't give it to little peeps, I see no reason not to give it to pullets who are getting their cluck, or cockrels destined for the freezer. The price of multi flock is several dollars more per bag, so the economy temptation is there as well. I recently found a less expensive layer at my usual feed store. They've carried it all along, but they don't tell customers it's available, instead simply giving them the more expensive brand when a customer asks for layer. The only difference that I can find between the 2 products is advertising hype about "proprietary blend" while the ingredient list and nutrient percentages are essentially identical. BTW, I LOVE Doms. I am also hoping to have some cockrels foraging in my BTE orchard this summer in a tractor that will be moved between the trees. I have planted Bocking 14 Comfrey between the trees, so it will be interesting what a tractor full of birds will do to that.

Quote: If feral chickens were here, they'd be gracing my table as well. You raise a valid point in that there may come a day when the genetic material of feral chickens might be used to undo the damage done by the commercial hatcheries.

 

[triplepurpose]

Costco here recently started carrying the layer for "only" $25 dollars a pound so we were really excited about that. I would rather support the smalltown feed store run by a great guy i went to school with, and honestly i think the products he sells are better quality over all, but its tough when its almost double the price... i try to assuage my conscience in part by buying our oystershell and the occasional chick starter from him (as well as our housecat's food).

Yes I never even knew much about doms till relatively recently, but I've fallen in love with these guys. They seem like a really nice blend of traits pretty close to our ideal flock. I've wanted to have a large rotating pasture system for years. One part of the plan for these guys is to lay down some bulky greenwaste mulch around the orchard trees ahead of the moving pasture, to create more environment for bugs. we always have heaps of greenwaste anyway, and this seems a more labor efficient way to provide protein than trying to culture grubs or worms (and more stimulating for the birds). So they will have mixed terrain encompassing bare earth, grass turf, and mulch, with mixed shade and sun. I'm excited to see how well it all works. We still plan to keep a few chickens in the old coop to work our compost pile for us, but if we like the results of this new experiement the orchard pasture will become our main flock area.

The comfrey tractor planning sounds clever. I havent had great luck trying to persuade chickens to eat comfrey but you've reminded me to continue trying... The best success I had actually was chopping and pureeing some with water in an old blender and mixing it into the FF...

Cheers!

 

[lazy gardener]

Did you REALLY mean TWENTY FIVE DOLLARS A POUND FOR LAYER?????

Please tell me that was a typo. When you talk about green waste, are you talking about grass clippings, and garden weeds, and such? Have you looked into the option of Black Soldier Fly larvae? Those are high protein, and easily cultured simply by using compostable materials. You are in Hawaii? that would be a great way to turn your rotting fruit, assuming you have an excess of fruit from your own trees into a free protein source. They are also high in calcium. In your orchard, are the trees underplanted with grass, some other material, or is your orchard heavily mulched? Have you looked at the Back to Eden film?

 

[triplepurpose]

Did you REALLY mean TWENTY FIVE DOLLARS A POUND FOR LAYER?????  Please tell me that was a typo.  When you talk about green waste, are you talking about grass clippings, and garden weeds, and such?  Have you looked into the option of Black Soldier Fly larvae?  Those are high protein, and easily cultured simply by using compostable materials.  You are in Hawaii?  that would be a great way to turn your rotting fruit, assuming you have an excess of fruit from your own trees into a free protein source.  They are also high in calcium.   In your orchard, are the trees underplanted with grass, some other material, or is your orchard heavily mulched?  Have you looked at the Back to Eden film?  

Hahaha! Nope, no typo! BTW "Conventional" would be a little cheaper but after flirting with it occassionally we decided it wasn't an option (both to support other OG farmers, and out of concerns about ever increasing toxic residues allowed in feed grain in particular these days, like the glyphosate used in "chemical drying").

I did some BSF in the past and found getting a decent harvest of grubs somewhat touch and go and kind of a nuisance trying to maintain optimal conditions in the pod frustrating. though i am constantly tempted to revisit it.

The orchard is natural grass mostly, but in shady spots it is shadeloving weeds or more bare. We don't remove leaf litter so directly beneath the trees is usually that. It also adjoins the (perennial) banana patch too which is very jungle like but could also encompass a section of the pasture for increased diversity. Like i said, high hopes, but Im sure we will run into a few unforeseen obstacles too...

Greenwaste more along the lines of bulkier carbon-rich things like small branches, coarse grasses, palmfronds, small weed trees, etc--finer stuff tends to go directly into composting. Obviously since most things continue to grow yearround in the tropics we have a lot of that stuff on 3 and ahalf acres. We joke that as farmers we do more to cut things down or trim things or pull things out than we do to getting things to grow, but it's half true...

Back to Eden film sounds familiar, but Ill have to look it up.