Random incubator discrepancies?

[Duckfarmer1]

@EggSighted4Life ...today it was very cold here and we were unable to collect the eggs until about 7pm..it was in the 20’s all day. Can I use those eggs, or could they have froze and killed the embryos? I set them on the counter now...just in case they are usable...still supposed to be cold tomorrow, but we will be home, so I can collect more often....it seems every time I go...the same chickens are still setting in there!! But, then hours later they are out. One hen does this daily. If I left her some eggs, would she go broody? And when they are broody, do they still lay? Thanks!!

 

[EggSighted4Life]

If I left her some eggs, would she go broody? And when they are broody, do they still lay?

Chickens will go broody without eggs in the box and they will brood air even though I collect eggs everyday.

When they are broody they do NOT lay eggs and won't return to lay until chicks they raise reach about 6 weeks old, give or take depending on the individual hen. Some may still lay an egg or two once they've started setting but I've never yet seen more than that. Other hens WILL try to get their eggs hatched by a broody though and will lay in her nest, so marking with a sharpie the ones intended to hatch and collecting new deposits each night is important to prevent staggered hatching.

20's is quite cold... I know it takes time for the eggs to cool down, and have never personally faced that before. Also, when other come and lay it heats the egg each time (actually shown to increase hatch rate), so MAYBE the eggs didn't freeze? I do consider all wild birds to have to deal with this each year. Maybe they don't start brooding until temps are closer to acceptable... a turkey or most birds I know of.. leave their eggs every night until their clutch is sufficient. If I was going to set them anyways... I would make some extra marks and use a notebook to identify them and see what the outcome is for future understanding.

One alternative MIGHT be adding low wattage heating pads to the nest box to keep eggs from freezing if it was super important.

When it comes to chickens... they usually start making a little cluck sound several days before full broodiness sets in.

Sorry, distraction interrupted train thought so gonna post now and add more later if I missed something..

 

[Duckfarmer1]

Chickens will go broody without eggs in the box and they will brood air even though I collect eggs everyday.

When they are broody they do NOT lay eggs and won't return to lay until chicks they raise reach about 6 weeks old, give or take depending on the individual hen. Some may still lay an egg or two once they've started setting but I've never yet seen more than that. Other hens WILL try to get their eggs hatched by a broody though and will lay in her nest, so marking with a sharpie the ones intended to hatch and collecting new deposits each night is important to prevent staggered hatching.

20's is quite cold... I know it takes time for the eggs to cool down, and have never personally faced that before. Also, when other come and lay it heats the egg each time (actually shown to increase hatch rate), so MAYBE the eggs didn't freeze? I do consider all wild birds to have to deal with this each year. Maybe they don't start brooding until temps are closer to acceptable... a turkey or most birds I know of.. leave their eggs every night until their clutch is sufficient. If I was going to set them anyways... I would make some extra marks and use a notebook to identify them and see what the outcome is for future understanding.

One alternative MIGHT be adding low wattage heating pads to the nest box to keep eggs from freezing if it was super important.

When it comes to chickens... they usually start making a little cluck sound several days before full broodiness sets in.

Sorry, distraction interrupted train thought so gonna post now and add more later if I missed something..

Oh you’re fine...you’re sooo much help. I definitely hear the clucks from at least two...but they don’t peck at me when I take their eggs, and I don’t see them stay in there over..is that because I took the eggs? So, a sharpie won’t damage the chick inside? I saved yesterday’s eggs outside in the counter, just in case, but I don’t know if they are a good idea. We weren’t home to collect twice. Today they ate six eggs!! Boy was I mad!! I’ve been losing 2-3 a day..I’ve tried filling an egg with mustard...I have porcelain Easter eggs in there...no help. Ugh...any ideas on how to get them to stop that?

 

[EggSighted4Life]

and I don’t see them stay in there over..is that because I took the eggs? So, a sharpie won’t damage the chick inside?

Taking eggs won't stop a hen from being broody.. it might teach them to avoid that box and lay somewhere else. They will still go broody IF their hormones increase to the point that tells them to. It's completely hormonal and have had zero effect on my broody factor... that was simply genetics... some birds don't have a broody bone in their body. Other hens will go broody within about their first 3 weeks of starting to lay... and will go go broody back to back to back whether broody broke or allowed to sit on and raise a clutch. Some of my Silkie hens were broody every third egg they laid literally and that may be the main reason why I no longer keep Silkies... even though I could sell the chicks as fast as I could hatch them all day long every day for $10+ EACH straight run, depending on color variety. So keep eggs collected, you will KNOW when you have a broody. The overnight lay box stay along with only leaving the nest for a quick drink, bite, poo, and maybe a dirt bath.. with the accompanying cluck... of course all ladies are slightly different... but they will RUSH back to the nest... with intent... within 10-15 minutes, depending on weather... the hens wait to leave the nest until mid day in cold weather in my experience. Verse nice weather they rush out first thing in the morning when the door gets opened. It's really quite interesting and amazing!

With broody hens, I used pencil ONCE. It rubs off very easily causing the wrong eggs to get collected or left behind and very frustrating when you don't notice until it's too late. Since that incident, I even use sharpie in my incubator(s) to outline my final air sack before lock down to ensure I lay the biggest dip facing up. I have hatched hundreds of chicks... and not ONCE had an issue from sharpie. Red is not a good choice as it looks like blood if they pip through it. I'm exhausted now, so hatching slower.. but year before last... I had 3 (42+ egg) incubators running with one being used as a hatcher only and chicks hatched every single week.. so had to get creative with the egg marking to know which ones should be candled, go into lock down, etc. They were often labeled with a number or letter, if not both. The Sharpie never smelled once dry and hasn't seeped through the shells either in addition to not causing any poor clogging diminishing air exchange to the embryo. Another option that could be tried if you're uncomfortable might be crayola non toxic type markers.. Or you might find something you like even more!

 

[Duckfarmer1]

The sharpie sounds like it works fine...my hubby was just concerned, but you clearly found it to be safe!! I think I’m starting tomorrow, but I’m not sure if the eggs are old enough..I have to look back through all the reading..and refresh my thoughts, and get it all straight..again!! So, if I have a few broody hens, could that explain why my egg counts have dropped by at least 4-5 a day..not counting the ones they eat? I have another client who wants at least 4dozen per week...I have to buy more hens!! Fast!! I now have three stores who want dozens of eggs, plus family who buys tons eggs regularly plus people who buy them randomly. Do I need to do a broody breaker?

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Do I need to do a broody breaker?

A broody will make your egg count drop by her one egg only for around 9-12 weeks usually.

A "breaker" (elevated wire bottom kennel or even a rabbit cage) is only needed if you actually need to keep broody hens away from their nest. I use an open bottom kennel on the grass during nice daytime weather and put them in the elevated coop one at night. NO bedding being key to helping cool them off. I don't do the cold water dunk crud. Don't put a hen in the breaker before she tried to spend the night in the lay box. Some ladies are slower layers than others.

If you have a broody hen that may not be a prolific layer anyways... might be good to let her raise chicks for you and save any cost on heating lamps also decreases bedding need cuz the hen takes chicks out all day and only chicks poo in the nest at night. To decrease time spent sitting and egg production loss, I adopt incubator chicks to a hen who already proven reliable at about 1 week into broody if I have them available. It keeps the hens in better condition to then letting them sit forever. NONE of my hens that chose to set ever quit without me breaking them, yet. What's more, I especially like them to raise my cockerel chicks if auto sexing like my Bielefelder or sex linked as in my previous FBCM roo X BR hen. Then I can raise and friendly up pullets while boys learn manners from the flock. My large fowl hens were more CAPABLE broodies than my Silkies who were just excessively broody.

With regards to heat lamps... I have replaced so many bulbs (250W white and red over tighten so easily and blow out & too hot for indoors but not available at lower wattage, 100 & 150W infrared pricey as heck and don't heat nearly as well) plus the cost of electricity to run them. I recently invested in a heating plate and expect it pay for itself in electricity in the first 1-2 sessions. I've tried mama heating pad, and almost killed some chicks that got wrapped inside the plastic wrap I was using... so it wasn't for me but now I have an extra $20 heating pad. I should've just bought the plate YEARS ago. It's great to have alternatives so I'm just sharing my experience and some ideas in case you haven't heard of or looked into them. Fire safety is a huge bonus.

Stop those egg eaters... put them in their own coop, give them away, sell them, or eat them. Egg count should be increasing with daylight NOT decreasing. Some egg eating is just happy accident from a weaker egg breaking. But if it's something that's actively being done becoming habitual then swift action is needed before it gets learned by the entire flock. Have you been able to identify them yet?

Since egg production is important to you.. I would NOT add any more Orps unless maybe the Australorp. I would consider adding in more RIR or some Leghorn... or something that lays prolifically without being known for broodiness or reproductive issue that decrease longevity. In other words replacing sex links every couple years might increase cost of keeping.

I like to add in pullets EVERY year.. and sell off older ladies that have returned to lay after molt but earlier in the season so their new owner gets a good lay season before they molt again and the young layers will come into lay by the time the kept older ladies are entering molt. The older gals still go for about $20+ which is more valuable than putting them on my table. Most will lay well around 5 years. This is also how I continually increase quality in my breeding stock... keep the best of the best and eat or sell the rest... to meet MY desired flock size and keep it checked and balanced.

If you add in some barred rocks... or cuckoo/barred any ladies... you could hatch your own sex linked chicks with a solid non white rooster... And if you select for vigor etc... maybe even avoid some of the issues seen in hatchery sex links. Of course selling chicks is just a bonus to me, but pure bred chicks will often sell for more than barnyard mix.

Using a RIR or Leghorn Rooster could increase your egg production in future generations over current Orps or other Dual purpose breeds IF meat production isn't important to you. I process ALL my boys... even Silkies, white faced black Spanish... etc... size and breed doesn't matter to me as much as hatching responsibly. If I don't have desire to put some in the freezer for whatever reason... I'm not above composting them, burying them under a new planted tree as fertilizer, or even leaving for the barn cats to polish off after humanely dispatching.

told me to remove the red plugs...I don5 see any...where would they be?

They're usually on the top... yours are already gone. With regards to the suggestion not to open bator until day 4... I often can't see solid development until then.. but yes, proceed how YOU feel best, according to your current understanding. As time goes on, you will find YOUR preferred way... maybe try different ideas and see what works best for YOU. I would love for you try one hatch with the moving and one without and see HOW it effect your hatching time frame... is it closer, more spread, or zero difference?? One thing about that dry article... they were using a cabinet incubator... maybe they already set their eggs without any turner warm spots or something like that? Cabinets have a lot more STABILITY, I think. I know my large aquariums were a LOT easier to stabilize than my small ones and I think it does translate... This is a perfect example of so many differing ways, doing what makes most sense to us at the time, realizing that everyone may be making suggestions based on THEIR set up and conditions and how it translates to our personal reality.

Then it again said don’t not open it at all from day 18 on...do I move the eggs then.....or are they right on that part?

It's true. When I do my final candling on day 18, I also remove the turner. After marking my air cells, all seemingly viable eggs will be placed back in the bator... basically as center as possible, low side air cell facing ceiling... it will still draw down a bunch more and pip below the mark most likely. I spend this day getting my humidity up... 65% +.. but without condensation dripping. Usually even in my humid location that means all wells are filled... depth only effects how long it will last... If your humidity has dropped say 50% or below.. or on day 20, if your don't see any external pips... it is okay to open the bator to add water.

Usually folks should not open the bator after external pips.. in order to prevent "shrink wrapping"... from the sudden decrease in temp and humidity. It's a good advice! It also is meant to help keep folks from assisting hatches and allowing for nature to take it's course... only the strong survive figuring those who weren't strong enough to hatch was for a reason that ultimately won't benefit you keeping in your breeding stock. If I wan't to open the bator during this time... I usually hang towels or blankets around the top and draping over my arms, keeping it closed as possible and working quickly but calmly and carefully.. to stop the rapid temp/humidity change. I don't think I've shrink wrapped any yet. I have both assisted and not assisted hatch... sometimes making things worse other times saving a chick life.

You will face MANY choices, and your response might not be the same each time... mine sure isn't, though I generally try to be consistent... the brain wanders! Through out this I learned that I will NOT fix splay leg in chicks period. I have been both successful and not at it... but the problem was once fixed it blends in and may be included in breeding stock. Since very few ever had splay leg, while many others thrived regardless of hatch substrate, I consider it genetic weakness, I cull cross beak as soon as I see it (10% in my most recent new breed and not until their first outing at 3 weeks old when it became more evident, despite not being seen in any breeder, but never before that with other breeds). I will administer nutri drench for star gazers, but not if they hatched from my own flock as I KNOW my breeder nutrition is good and storage conditions of my eggs. When I have one that won't connect with food no matter how hard I try withing the first couple days... I consider it failure to thrive and I cull instead of letting them slowly starve to death in front of me. They often pick the feed up even but drop it instead of swallowing. VERY few of these... but when all chick are content and one gripes non stop... there IS a reason... always check for pasty butt... no matter how many times folks say it's caused by too hot brooder or stress, I have seen pasty butt EVEN in broody raised chicks and it can for MANY reasons and is deadly fast. I have also seen it in brooder chicks hatched at home, never shipped or over crowded, and with all the other chicks doing just fine. So each is an individual with it's own immune system and such and even under the same conditions some will thrive while others not so much... SELECT for VIGOR first.

I once hatched a set of chicks that 50% had severe toe curling under due to a power outage when I wasn't home that lasted a good while about mid incubation. Those were my first deformities ever seen and knowing I would eat the boys anyways let them grow out to see what happened. Well one was female who I rehomed for free to be with another disabled chicken, at that point dispatching a hen for my freezer wasn't in my brain process. As she got older and gained size, roosting was not going to happen. It appeared uncomfortable. I will NOT rehome ANY more deformities after that... too many folks still allow breeding to take place and that's going to weaken my community. Plus I feel as though it could effect my reputation. Since needing to "euthanize" an older hen who had started laying lash eggs... Ladies don't get a free pass anymore... they are used where is deemed most appropriate, either to the pocket book or the heart. Some have made special connections and allowed to stay even once no longer laying even though I can't let everyone stay. Everyone does get treated equal, with care and respect. They all have the best life I can give and ONE bad moment that's over before they can process what just happened.

I have to buy more hens!! Fast!!

Please head my words of caution.. if not now, at some point in the future you may kick yourself and start then..

Marek's vaccinated birds NOT welcome here to hide the disease and allow it to proliferate IF it shows up. Use good bio security measures and NEVER bring a bird from someone else coop/pasture. Marek's is only one thing but things like MC/MG, IB or others are just as, if not more scary. Always use an NPIP hatchery or breeder when adding new stock. While there are many things NPIP doesn't test for or consider report able (including MDv), it at least test for Salmonella which no one wants in the flock. Last years outbreak of New Castle's disease in southern California caused mandatory quarantine and eventual euthanasia of 1000's of back yard flocks in some counties. If you do have the space to provide TRUE quarantine before risking the rest of your flock, then please use it if you must bring in started birds to meet your demand. Otherwise maybe do what you can currently for those patrons divided up as you see fit and explain the biosecurity measures you're taking to ensure the health of your entire flock and thus the eggs they will be consuming. This essentially in my eyes, is added value to the reason why folks choose to by local. Small farmers do care about more than just their bottom dollar they care about people and their animals.

but I’m not sure if the eggs are old enough.

I don't age eggs on purpose before setting. Almost always, I will collect right up until the day I set and set them. If I was going to age them on purpose... I believe 2-3 days might be the right time frame... Noting that this essentially changes the ph of the egg (increases I think but could be the opposite since too many facts and figures can get jumbled in my memory, and temperature may effect how long)... but egg ph also changes with age of hen being lowest as young pullets... I say no extra waiting... if the egg was laid, it's old enough to set. The incubation guide I linked does talk about this some. And this is just my take... lots of things that talk about increasing or decreasing hatch rate... may only be talking about less than 1%.. which matters not much to home folks but a whole lot on the commercial scale... so a lot of the tips may have minuscule impact individually but all together maybe SOME. Our goal of course is always best hatch possible... USE calibrated thermometer for the biggest impact on hatch rates.

There are all kinds of things I haven't mentioned and don't CURRENTLY do that you might be interested in.. like spritzing eggs. Without any extra tips besides calibrate your temp and turn your eggs and odd amount of times per day not less than 3... My very first hatch was 100% and rarely have I achieved that again. I most often achieve 85%+ which is not bad compared to commercial hatch rates I've seen. I'm kinda a perfectionist but also a realist (and a bit lazy) so I only wash my hands of they REALLY need it, like I was just handling cheese or something like that. I have sat eggs with poop that hatched just fine. I've washed them off and they hatch fine. I have scraped the poo off and rubbed it off with the scrubby side of a dry sponge sponge. Generally though keeping bumm feathers poo free, and lay boxes clean it isn't an issue. If a lady poos in the box after she lays regularly, she will be cut from my stock.. poo eggs do me no good, as they are often stained anyways even after washing. So they get boiled or scrambled and fed back to the animals as a treat while figuring out who needs help in that department. Your flocks are kinda large.. so you may see a lot of things smaller keepers will never see. Just when I think I've seen it all (and I really haven't), something new and amazing (or scary) comes to light... Very few things can keep my interest long term... and after 10+ years of keeping poultry I feel like I'm just beginning. Once breeding starts... especially if you have a purpose... the genetics becomes fascinating! And turning your flock into what you desire is VERY rewarding... truly for me just something to focus my (mind) energy on positively instead of being sucked into the undertow of the world. I learn something new every day and having new life popping up in your home while others around may not be knowing that joy on any average day of your choosing is an amazing pay off! The new life outweighs the challenges most of the time.

My chromebooks is dying, sorry so much detail especially if I repeated any!

Adventure ON!

 

[Duckfarmer1]

I need the detail!?, ok, a million questions!! You get rid of a chicken for going poo in the nest box? How do you know who did it? As for the egg eaters...I think they might allll be doing it now...my hubby is overwhelmed with other work..but we are going on a road trip tomorrow...so he can’t get away...lol..I’m going to talk to him about roll away nesting boxes..if he can make them? He used to be a contractor..so he can make them..but will he?? He doesn’t think it’s a big deal..I do! Ok, so perhaps all my hens aren’t broody after all? The same 4 gals set in there, it seems, all day long. If I take them out..like one I tried to put her in a broody box, but she escaped..ran right back to the nest. I only checked at night a few times. They were laying like crazy a few weeks ago..like 32 a day!! Now I’m down to about 23-25....I know one day they ate 6, that I could tell, by the boxes. Where do I put the humidity meter in the Bator? How do I candle eggs if I can’t open the Bator? I though5 I read on her3 peo0le candled like, on day 5 or so to see the veins? how do I add more water to change the humidity if I can’t open it? am I taking the can’t open the lid thing all wrong?

yes, I definitely have enough space to do a proper quarantine. We built a separate coop back in, the fall? I know a farmer , we are planning to breed our goats there in the fall..she might sell me a few hens? I know she tests everything. But, I will still quarentine...I do that with all new animals. My roosters are both NHR...I never thought about breeding when I bought all these breeds. I was picking based on production..and, in the beginning, I just picked randomly....I had a BR roo...he was very mean..so I’ve stayed away from the breed since. Austrolorps I’ve heard good things, just weren’t available when we were buying. The egg eaters..I can’t cull many birds....how do I know..watch? I have suspected one...but, not sure on the rest. Hard to tell some from the others...11 RIR look about the same, except for naked necks....due to on3 of those group, feathe4 picking..ugh! My Bator turns the eggs...do 8 need to turn them too? Ok..that’s all I can think of now...oh wait..so, the beaks...I never though5 of tha5 issue. You are bringing all these to my mind. I just thought of basic issues. Thank you for making me open my eyes to reality...I live in a bubble of happiness....

 

[Duckfarmer1]

I’m already screwing it up!! Day two...can’t maintain temp..I adjust because utbeiter slightly too high..102 or, then too low...99’....shooting forr 120-101.5? Plus, the humidity meter!! Ugh! Can’t get it above 48%. Added water..even put in a wet sock...no help...now what?