Rat feed deterent

[amarsano]

I just wanted to post that I finally found something that'll works for deterring rats from feed! Long story is that I have Marek's and avian leukosis in my flock. I'm using Chinese skullcap to treat them. Since it's a powder, a member here suggested that some folks use a sprayer and cement mixer to coat the feed in neutral oil and toss in the powder to give it an even coating. Well, no cement mixer for me. Instead, I filled a garden sprayer with a gallon of canola oil and added 2 drops of highly concentrated capsaicin. I keep my food in galvanized trash barrels. I'd add a little feed, spray it, powder it , mix and repeat. I only added the capsaicin because I figure it couldn't hurt and might deter the rats. Well, I caught on camera a rat getting into one of my night coops and going towards the food. He sniffed it, turned around and left! I also sprayed the scratch and grubblies that I throw out to the flock. I am beyond excited that this actually worked! The oil has not broken down the feed because it is just lightly misted, which was a concern of mine. The birds don't mind the capsaicin, and have shown no ill effects from the addition. It also sticks better than just adding powdered pepper in. I was just so excited I needed to share!

 

[Al Gerhart]

This would be awesome were it actually a valid method but too many studies have been done, peer reviewed studies, to give much credence to capsaicin working long term. Here is an exert from one study. To set it up, they offered two feeds,one treated with capsaicin at different heat levels (SHU) and one normal feed. Plus they had another study done previously as a control, just plain untreated feed.

Quote:

https://archive.org/download/wikipe...s/10.1002%2Fpon.3910.zip/10.1002%2Fps.705.pdf

For both treated diets, results of pairwise comparisons reflected perceived differences in alternative feed that was available to rodents among sites (Table1). At sites 1 and 3, additional feed
sources, were low to moderate, and feeding stations were located in small buildings (45 and 20m2, respectively). Similar patterns in response to the treated diets were observed at each of these sites. Initially, consumption of the poultry feed decreased dramatically at sites 1 and 3 when the 2000SHU diet was offered, and remained low for 8 days. Thereafter, feed consumption increased and approached pre-treatment levels of consumption. Tolerance of rodents to the capsaicin may have increased over this time period and, with a lack of alternative feed, animals had probably reached some hunger threshold. At site 1, rats did not decrease feed consumption when offered the 3000SHU diet. Previous exposure to the 2000SHU diet may have increased tolerance to capsaicin. In additional, rats may have become more dependent on the poultry feed. This explanation is supported in part by the increase in consumption of the control diet over the three2-week periods that it was offered at site1.


Consumption of the control diet did not change over the study period at site 3, but consumption of both treated diets increased over the 2-week periods they were offered. Moreover, carry-over effects may have influenced feed consumption when diet treatments were changed, although visual inspection of the data suggests that any such effects were likely minimal (Figs1and2)

End quote.

In short, they found that adding capsaicin to chicken feed did produce temporary results until the rodents became accustomed to it, then the liked it as much as the untreated feed. But, in the short term, it did lead the rodents to prefer the bait they set out, albeit bait without the poison. Obviously they couldn't use poison bait or their rats would die so they used the bait without the poison.

The bad news, 4% by weight capsaicin was used. An ounce of pure capsaicin runs $20.00 on Amazon. A bag of feed, 50 pounds, needs roughly two pounds of capsaicin. Do the math, even a one pound container of plain cayenne pepper costs $20 plus shipping so $40.00 plus to treat one bag of chicken feed. It would be cheaper to just buy more feed for the rats.

What you saw was real but it was the initial reaction to something unfamiliar and rats are very smart. When he got hungry he would be back and in a few days it would be eating as much as before.

 

[amarsano]

This would be awesome were it actually a valid method but too many studies have been done, peer reviewed studies, to give much credence to capsaicin working long term. Here is an exert from one study. To set it up, they offered two feeds,one treated with capsaicin at different heat levels (SHU) and one normal feed. Plus they had another study done previously as a control, just plain untreated feed.

Quote:

https://archive.org/download/wikipedia-scholarly-sources-corpus/10.1002%2Fpon.3910.zip/10.1002%2Fps.705.pdf

For both treated diets, results of pairwise comparisons reflected perceived differences in alternative feed that was available to rodents among sites (Table1). At sites 1 and 3, additional feed
sources, were low to moderate, and feeding stations were located in small buildings (45 and 20m2, respectively). Similar patterns in response to the treated diets were observed at each of these sites. Initially, consumption of the poultry feed decreased dramatically at sites 1 and 3 when the 2000SHU diet was offered, and remained low for 8 days. Thereafter, feed consumption increased and approached pre-treatment levels of consumption. Tolerance of rodents to the capsaicin may have increased over this time period and, with a lack of alternative feed, animals had probably reached some hunger threshold. At site 1, rats did not decrease feed consumption when offered the 3000SHU diet. Previous exposure to the 2000SHU diet may have increased tolerance to capsaicin. In additional, rats may have become more dependent on the poultry feed. This explanation is supported in part by the increase in consumption of the control diet over the three2-week periods that it was offered at site1.


Consumption of the control diet did not change over the study period at site 3, but consumption of both treated diets increased over the 2-week periods they were offered. Moreover, carry-over effects may have influenced feed consumption when diet treatments were changed, although visual inspection of the data suggests that any such effects were likely minimal (Figs1and2)

End quote.

In short, they found that adding capsaicin to chicken feed did produce temporary results until the rodents became accustomed to it, then the liked it as much as the untreated feed. But, in the short term, it did lead the rodents to prefer the bait they set out, albeit bait without the poison. Obviously they couldn't use poison bait or their rats would die so they used the bait without the poison.

The bad news, 4% by weight capsaicin was used. An ounce of pure capsaicin runs $20.00 on Amazon. A bag of feed, 50 pounds, needs roughly two pounds of capsaicin. Do the math, even a one pound container of plain cayenne pepper costs $20 plus shipping so $40.00 plus to treat one bag of chicken feed. It would be cheaper to just buy more feed for the rats.

What you saw was real but it was the initial reaction to something unfamiliar and rats are very smart. When he got hungry he would be back and in a few days it would be eating as much as before.

That is fair. It would be a limited case study. However, the deterrent for even a short time with alternative bait is beneficial at this point. I have bait and birth control set out, so I’m hoping to continue to minimize my rat population. I appreciate the research!
Oddly, I have one feed that the rats never eat. It’s from Grubblies and I tend to use it in my outdoor runs or as treats. It comes in a paper bag and the rats and mice have NEVER chewed through the bag. It’s bizarre. I have no clue what’s in it that deters them.

 

[Al Gerhart]

Rats eat more than chicken feed. Chicken toes, electrical wiring in your house, electrical wiring in your engine compartment in your car.

There is only two methods of controlling rats long term. Sanitation and exclusion.

Sanitation, bulk feed in metal barrels with tight lids, clean up the paths they use to get around so natural predators get some of them, and a proper treadle feeder. A proper treadle feeder has an inward swinging door, a narrow and distant treadle step, not a big close in one, and the door HAS to be spring loaded to provide tension so the rats don't push the door open or lift the lid if it is a guillotine style feeder. Check the negative reviews and believe them if they say rats aren't stopped. The majority of feeders sold are sold to people without a rat problem and even a piss poor treadle feeder might prevent rodents from finding the feed.

Exclusion, a Ft. Knox coop. Hardware cloth everywhere including the bottom and keep it patched up as the rats try to chew their way in. Very expensive, no free range of course.

 

[amarsano]

Rats eat more than chicken feed. Chicken toes, electrical wiring in your house, electrical wiring in your engine compartment in your car.

There is only two methods of controlling rats long term. Sanitation and exclusion.

Sanitation, bulk feed in metal barrels with tight lids, clean up the paths they use to get around so natural predators get some of them, and a proper treadle feeder. A proper treadle feeder has an inward swinging door, a narrow and distant treadle step, not a big close in one, and the door HAS to be spring loaded to provide tension so the rats don't push the door open or lift the lid if it is a guillotine style feeder. Check the negative reviews and believe them if they say rats aren't stopped. The majority of feeders sold are sold to people without a rat problem and even a piss poor treadle feeder might prevent rodents from finding the feed.

Exclusion, a Ft. Knox coop. Hardware cloth everywhere including the bottom and keep it patched up as the rats try to chew their way in. Very expensive, no free range of course.

Right now I have the hardware cloth route. It’s a pain to set up, but in the one area, no rats are getting in. The other area, where I saw the rat, didn’t have a completed hardware cloth yet. I have it entirely wrapped. I also keep feed in metal bins. I haven’t used the treadle feeders yet.
My dogs will kill any rat they can get their paws on, but my one dog also likes to “play” with the chickens. So their electric fence doesn’t allow them into the run areas. I do try to take them off leash periodically. I also feed treats, but use a large plastic bin that I empty before bed. So far, there have been no daytime rats there. I wish my chickens would eat the rats, but even when we’ve killed one inside their run they didn’t eat it.
I know some people talk about listeriosis, etc with birds eating rodents, but birds don’t contract listeriosis.
I’ve really improved animation so much. I live, literally, on the boundary to a state park, so keeping rats from coming in is impossible. We do have plenty of owls, fox, coyote, fishers, bobcats, and eagles. I wish they were a little better about getting these buggers,

 

[Al Gerhart]

Sounds like you are building a Ft. Knox coop, you won't need a treadle feeder if you spend that kind of money. One might save some feed waste and of course it will be six times more expensive to build a Ft. Knox coop.

Rats are just too large for a chicken to eat, can't swallow them, too tough to rip apart like mice.

You would be surprised at how few rats live in the wild areas. It takes a huge territory to feed a single rat, even rodents like pack rats live alone or with a single mate and drive their offspring off when they mature. But, if you think rats are coming from the forest, clean up all the pathways that are covered, bushes, building materials or debris they can hide in. Loose leaves, tall grass, expose them to all those wonderful predators that mostly live on rodents. Create a park like perimeter around your coop so the rats have to run a gauntlet of predators.