Feed approval/advice & brewers yeast question

[Kichibo]

I am new to raising chickens and have done a ton of research. I am hoping experienced keepers can look at my system plan and critique it, and i need to know when to add brewers yeast. Any and all critiques or advice is welcome.

The background: I live in zone 6b and got 4 rhode island red laying hens this summer. They live in a small, unheated old barn with far more space than they need ( close to 10ft per bird, planning for chicken math!), With about 8 inches of bedding with the deep litter method. During the spring,summer and fall, they spend 80 to 90 percent of their days outside in a 50 sq foot covered tractor that is moved around a grassy lawn, and go back to the barn ar night for safety. They will likely spend about 50 percent of their time outside during the winter and the other half they will stay in the barn. Next year they will have a coop with run and free range yard, but for now, i am not dealing with the hassle of putting them out in the tractor every day when it's 20 degrees out! So they will stay in the barn alot. I move the tractor ( mostly) daily so they have fresh ground to scour.

Up until now they have been on a standard feed from tractor supply with various treats daily (who would have thought chickens go NUTS for little alpine strawberries! They know where the patch is and go crazy when they see me picking them!) plus whatever they forage. They have the dry feed available free choice as well as free choice oyster shells and grit. I have done some soaking and fermenting but only about 25 percent of the time. They are now about 6 months old and the egg laying has started, but given that its already fall and heading into winter, it hasn't been much.

Now here is my new plan, please tell me what you think. I want them off commercial feed so i have spent days finding what's best available to me and testing what they like. This is what i came up with. A 10lb batch of the following mix: 2.5 hard red wheat, 2.5 soft white, 1 flax, 1 rolled oats, 1 split pea, 1 kelp meal, 1/2 BOSS, 1/2 brewers yeast (all in lbs) That makes a 17 percent protein and 7.5 percent fat (i went higher on the fat for our very cold winter, it will be scaled back after the winter ). I add just a small amount of dried herb from my garden, standard stuff like parsley, basil, oregano marigold petals, garlic (powdered) and for the winter just a dash of cayenne pepper. I am making 2 batches, one for dry feed to keep in their free choice feeder, and one to soak for daily morning feeding of their full daily ration. They have the dry free choice all day if the soaked food doesn't cut it, and of course oyster shells and grit all the time. I have a 3 day system soaking set up that i make all in 1 day. Day 1 is just soaked, day 2 starting to ferment (barely) and day 3 should be into fermentation. I use individual days rather than a big bucket so i don't have to figure out what the soaked equivalent to the dried amount is. Just dump a jar in the strainer and take it to them. My sprout system is up finally (clover, black oil sunflower, alfalfa so far) and my meal worm colony is now at full steam, so they will be getting a daily treat of one of whichever sprout or worms are available that day, maybe at lunch but mostly with the morning feeding. Do i have too much of something or am i missing something? I know this covers the macros, but will it cover all the micros like lysine, tryptophan and others since they won't be foraging bug during the winter? The meal worms will only be 1, maybe 2 days a week.

My question about the brewers yeast (and maybe kelp) is this. Right now i make 2 batches because I don't know if the yeast will cause problems with the soaking or fermenting process, and thought that I might lose the benefits of the yeast when I strain the water out, so I add it to the dry batch, but leave it out of the soaked stuff and add it when i serve it to them. I've been doing the same with the kelp and spices. It would of course be much easier if I could just make one batch of the mix for both dry and soaked, but not at the risk of washing out a significant portion of the protein and micro nutrients. Will adding the yeast to the food while it's soaking cause any problems and will I lose it all when I strain the mix? Also i have been keeping the herb mix in one container, the kelp in another and the yeast in another. Could i put all that in one mix? Just not sure of how the yeast will affect the other stuff and vice versa, I never even knew it existed until recently lol.

Sorry to pack so much in one post but it seemed easier to include as much as I can now so people don't have to asked dozens of questions in order to answer me. Thanks so much!

 

[nuthatched]

@U_Stormcrow @Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay
Sorry to bug yall but would you mind taking a look?

Op, I'd recommend against the herbs and spices, there's little benefit in those quantities and garlic/cayenne can be toxic in certain amounts

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Tomorrow, if I have time. Will need to know what yeast is being used, and which seaweed. L:OTS of variation, particularly in the seaweed. Basically two variants in yeast.

 

[Penpal]

If you leave feed out all day you will attract pests. If your birds are grown and forage all day they need feed in the morning and again before bed. If they don't forage, or don't forage much, you will need to add one or two meals. Play it by ear.

 

[Kichibo]

Tomorrow, if I have time. Will need to know what yeast is being used, and which seaweed. L:OTS of variation, particularly in the seaweed. Basically two variants in yeast.

I tried to do a reply but it went to the moderator and hasn't been seen since. Possibly because i tried to include links. I'm new to forum use. It's a brand of brewers yeast called Now from Amazon. The kelp is Thorvin nature's Icelandic kelp, also from Amazon.

 

[saysfaa]

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Now here is my new plan, please tell me what you think. I want them off commercial feed so i have spent days finding what's best available to me and testing what they like. This is what i came up with. A 10lb batch of the following mix: 2.5 hard red wheat, 2.5 soft white, 1 flax, 1 rolled oats, 1 split pea, 1 kelp meal, 1/2 BOSS, 1/2 brewers yeast (all in lbs) That makes a 17 percent protein and 7.5 percent fat (i went higher on the fat for our very cold winter, it will be scaled back after the winter ). I add just a small amount of dried herb from my garden, standard stuff like parsley, basil, oregano marigold petals, garlic (powdered) and for the winter just a dash of cayenne pepper. I am making 2 batches, one for dry feed to keep in their free choice feeder, and one to soak for daily morning feeding of their full daily ration.

My question about the brewers yeast (and maybe kelp) is this. Right now i make 2 batches because I don't know if the yeast will cause problems with the soaking or fermenting process, and thought that I might lose the benefits of the yeast when I strain the water out, so I add it to the dry batch, but leave it out of the soaked stuff and add it when i serve it to them. I've been doing the same with the kelp and spices. It would of course be much easier if I could just make one batch of the mix for both dry and soaked, but not at the risk of washing out a significant portion of the protein and micro nutrients. Will adding the yeast to the food while it's soaking cause any problems and will I lose it all when I strain the mix?

After accounting for moisture content, I calculate that closer to 17% protein, a bout 4.2% fiber (fine), and roughly 7.5% fat (high long term). Adding mealworms as a treat will raise fat further, will not have huge impact on total protein, unless you add lots of mealworms, which will just bring fat content up faster.

In terms on amino acids, you are low on methionine (around 0.27%), good on Lys, and meet the targets for Thre and Tryp.

The other stuff you are adding (parsley, basil, garlic, red peper flake, marigold, etc) may make the eggs more "sunshine-y" in color, but detract from the overal average nutrition. None of those are good protein sources, and depending on a host of factors (fresh? dried? how long stored? grown on what soil? in what season) are so variable in what they do provide as to be incalculable.

That said, some of those do have compounds that can affect yeast and bacteria. Almost certainly not in quantities that you are using, unless your yeast culture/bacteria culture is mixed with them directly. You absolutely can ferment with them included as part of the larger mix. Fermentation isn't a panacea. It makes some things more bioavailable. It makes other things less bioavailable. Your bigger problem is your yeast. Yeast grows by breaking down carbs, "eating" simple sugars, and producing byproducts - mostly CO2 and alcohol. Alcohol, of course, does impair bacterial growth - its why so many cultures relied on 'table beer' when the water sources were unclean, or thinned wine. Same concept. Eventually, with the right bacteria, that alcohol can be coinverted to acetic acid (vinegar) as part of a secondary fermentation.

Getting your balance right will be trial and error. Or ferment with your yogurt, kefir, vinegar "mother", whatever, then sprinkle yeast before serving - though that makes portioning/mixing much more difficult.

My thoughts only, sorry for the delay in posting. Its been two weeks around here I'd rather not repeat.

Yes, you absolutely can ferment with the yeast if desired - but you wei

 

[Shadrach]

It's testing what they like and sourcing good quality feed componants that's been the major problem for me.
Just researching the differences in wheat's nutritional profile between the different types is a headache.
So, if you can, buy your base grains where they provide a nutritional analysis. There are major differences between varieties.

I've been using Kefir as a fermenting starter.
I tried not washing the grains after fermentation and the chickens were not really interested in eating. Rinsed they were fine with.

The article below is an excellent article on home made feed.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...eat-tears-a-calculator-or-deep-pockets.78655/

 

[primordialkraken]

I am new to raising chickens and have done a ton of research. I am hoping experienced keepers can look at my system plan and critique it, and i need to know when to add brewers yeast. Any and all critiques or advice is welcome.

The background: I live in zone 6b and got 4 rhode island red laying hens this summer. They live in a small, unheated old barn with far more space than they need ( close to 10ft per bird, planning for chicken math!), With about 8 inches of bedding with the deep litter method. During the spring,summer and fall, they spend 80 to 90 percent of their days outside in a 50 sq foot covered tractor that is moved around a grassy lawn, and go back to the barn ar night for safety. They will likely spend about 50 percent of their time outside during the winter and the other half they will stay in the barn. Next year they will have a coop with run and free range yard, but for now, i am not dealing with the hassle of putting them out in the tractor every day when it's 20 degrees out! So they will stay in the barn alot. I move the tractor ( mostly) daily so they have fresh ground to scour.

Up until now they have been on a standard feed from tractor supply with various treats daily (who would have thought chickens go NUTS for little alpine strawberries! They know where the patch is and go crazy when they see me picking them!) plus whatever they forage. They have the dry feed available free choice as well as free choice oyster shells and grit. I have done some soaking and fermenting but only about 25 percent of the time. They are now about 6 months old and the egg laying has started, but given that its already fall and heading into winter, it hasn't been much.

Now here is my new plan, please tell me what you think. I want them off commercial feed so i have spent days finding what's best available to me and testing what they like. This is what i came up with. A 10lb batch of the following mix: 2.5 hard red wheat, 2.5 soft white, 1 flax, 1 rolled oats, 1 split pea, 1 kelp meal, 1/2 BOSS, 1/2 brewers yeast (all in lbs) That makes a 17 percent protein and 7.5 percent fat (i went higher on the fat for our very cold winter, it will be scaled back after the winter ). I add just a small amount of dried herb from my garden, standard stuff like parsley, basil, oregano marigold petals, garlic (powdered) and for the winter just a dash of cayenne pepper. I am making 2 batches, one for dry feed to keep in their free choice feeder, and one to soak for daily morning feeding of their full daily ration. They have the dry free choice all day if the soaked food doesn't cut it, and of course oyster shells and grit all the time. I have a 3 day system soaking set up that i make all in 1 day. Day 1 is just soaked, day 2 starting to ferment (barely) and day 3 should be into fermentation. I use individual days rather than a big bucket so i don't have to figure out what the soaked equivalent to the dried amount is. Just dump a jar in the strainer and take it to them. My sprout system is up finally (clover, black oil sunflower, alfalfa so far) and my meal worm colony is now at full steam, so they will be getting a daily treat of one of whichever sprout or worms are available that day, maybe at lunch but mostly with the morning feeding. Do i have too much of something or am i missing something? I know this covers the macros, but will it cover all the micros like lysine, tryptophan and others since they won't be foraging bug during the winter? The meal worms will only be 1, maybe 2 days a week.

My question about the brewers yeast (and maybe kelp) is this. Right now i make 2 batches because I don't know if the yeast will cause problems with the soaking or fermenting process, and thought that I might lose the benefits of the yeast when I strain the water out, so I add it to the dry batch, but leave it out of the soaked stuff and add it when i serve it to them. I've been doing the same with the kelp and spices. It would of course be much easier if I could just make one batch of the mix for both dry and soaked, but not at the risk of washing out a significant portion of the protein and micro nutrients. Will adding the yeast to the food while it's soaking cause any problems and will I lose it all when I strain the mix? Also i have been keeping the herb mix in one container, the kelp in another and the yeast in another. Could i put all that in one mix? Just not sure of how the yeast will affect the other stuff and vice versa, I never even knew it existed until recently lol.

Sorry to pack so much in one post but it seemed easier to include as much as I can now so people don't have to asked dozens of questions in order to answer me. Thanks so much!

Very well written; hope you don't mind us following suit! Super informative. Thank you for taking the time to research the fermented feed.

My partner and I have been throwing ideas back and forth about worms and sprouts, so to read that you are pumping that out is brilliant inspiration for us! Striving for sustainability.

Best regards in the new year

 

[Kichibo]

Very well written; hope you don't mind us following suit! Super informative. Thank you for taking the time to research the fermented feed.

My partner and I have been throwing ideas back and forth about worms and sprouts, so to read that you are pumping that out is brilliant inspiration for us! Striving for sustainability.

Best regards in the new ye

After accounting for moisture content, I calculate that closer to 17% protein, a bout 4.2% fiber (fine), and roughly 7.5% fat (high long term). Adding mealworms as a treat will raise fat further, will not have huge impact on total protein, unless you add lots of mealworms, which will just bring fat content up faster.

In terms on amino acids, you are low on methionine (around 0.27%), good on Lys, and meet the targets for Thre and Tryp.

The other stuff you are adding (parsley, basil, garlic, red peper flake, marigold, etc) may make the eggs more "sunshine-y" in color, but detract from the overal average nutrition. None of those are good protein sources, and depending on a host of factors (fresh? dried? how long stored? grown on what soil? in what season) are so variable in what they do provide as to be incalculable.

That said, some of those do have compounds that can affect yeast and bacteria. Almost certainly not in quantities that you are using, unless your yeast culture/bacteria culture is mixed with them directly. You absolutely can ferment with them included as part of the larger mix. Fermentation isn't a panacea. It makes some things more bioavailable. It makes other things less bioavailable. Your bigger problem is your yeast. Yeast grows by breaking down carbs, "eating" simple sugars, and producing byproducts - mostly CO2 and alcohol. Alcohol, of course, does impair bacterial growth - its why so many cultures relied on 'table beer' when the water sources were unclean, or thinned wine. Same concept. Eventually, with the right bacteria, that alcohol can be coinverted to acetic acid (vinegar) as part of a secondary fermentation.

Getting your balance right will be trial and error. Or ferment with your yogurt, kefir, vinegar "mother", whatever, then sprinkle yeast before serving - though that makes portioning/mixing much more difficult.

My thoughts only, sorry for the delay in posting. Its been two weeks around here I'd rather not repeat.

Yes, you absolutely can ferment with the yeast if desired - but you wei

I never got a notification that you replied, thank you for all the work to calculate that. Now at 6 weeks later, I am finding only slight changes in what I am feeding them.

I have not changed the formula much that I listed above other than to remove the herbs except as an occasional addon, and to add eggs. They don't seem to appreciate the wheats as seed as much, so those are being sprouted and /or grown into wheat grass, both of which they love, rather than soaked or fermented. I am getting more eggs than I can eat or give away, so I am cycling them back in at a rate of a dozen eggs per week for 4 hens. I can easily increase that if more would be better, I just didn't want to overdue it. This should improve their methionine uptake, but I am wondering if I should reduce or remove one of the other high fat ingredients like flax or BOSS now that I have a steady addition of the eggs, or leave it as is. It will be near 0 F here at night for about 4 weeks,with highs in the 20s, until about mid February, which is why I went with the higher fat content, but I don't want to destroy their little livers. Their coop is open, airy, draft free and dry with lots of bedding, but not heated. With only 4 girls, they don't add much body heat to raise the ambient temperature. I don't know how well chickens shed fat. When is the best time to start reducing the fat content to get ready for their trimmer summer needs?

Thank you and I hope your new year is starting off better than whatever you went through over Thanksgiving!