Rat Proof Feeder - Review

[seminolewind]

Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with this product in any way. Builder is a BYC member and sometimes poster, which is where I discovered the product. I purchased it through their website.

I am posting this in the Predator forum for a couple reasons. One is to address the problem with rats and mice in our coops, which creates yet another problem, and that is I am convinced that a concentration of rats and mice in our coops attract a whole host of other predators that arrive for the rats and mice, then quickly transition to the birds, eggs and chicks. Predators like weasels, snakes, etc.

So this started when I discovered a nest of mice living in the coop. I had been seeing some signs.......tunnels.......rodent feces, barn cats outside the coop staring at the ground around it, etc. Then one day I turned over a hay bale and about a dozen mice boiled up and scattered all over the place. The birds were inside and managed to catch one and what ensued was one of the worst chicken fights I've ever seen. The unlucky mouse was ripped from limb to limb, but it took a while.

Mice were dining on the open feed, plus what the birds were raking out on the ground, which was a lot. Judging from the rate they are eating feed now, maybe half of what they were going through was ending up on the ground, and attracting mice.

So this is the feeder I purchased:

http://ratproofchickenfeeder.com/Medium-Ratproof-Chicken-Feeder_p_1.html

It replaced this feeder, which is maybe 90% the same:

http://www.miller-mfg.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=171267

Build quality of the LG is excellent, but despite claims to the contrary, my birds wasted huge amounts of feed using it. They liked to rake down.....more like hoe straight back.... new feed at the back, and filled up the pan in the process. They ate only new feed that trickled down at the back. So in the process, all the excess feed they dragged down spilled out the front and on to the ground. There is a wire grid in the pan to prevent this, but it is not nearly high enough. It was always buried under the excess feed.

So the RP feeder is very similar in overall size and design, but with a cover in front of the feed pan. Birds must step on the treadle, which opens the cover to the rear, exposing only the feed in the front of the feed pan. Birds can't see the back of the pan (hidden behind the feed cover), so they only eat just inside the front edge. No accumulation of feed to rake or hoe out.

I must admit my first impression of the RP feeder was not a good one. Since this is more or less a sideline project for the builder, build quality is not as good as for the commercially built LG. Materials and workmanship. BUT, it is good enough and it is a better design, so at this point if you gave me the LG and I had to buy the RP, I would buy the RP.

So it was easy to assemble, but I immediately ran into trouble on the install. To prevent the feeder from tipping over, it needs to be installed to a back wall. Builder provides a 2 x 4 block for this purpose, but leave out some critical details on how to do it, which resulted in me doing it wrong the first time. I hung on the wall using holes I found in the sides, which was wrong on two counts. Holes I found were not for hanging the feeder. They were holes punched at the factory for assembly. You have to drill your own holes. Second issue was I simply hung the feeder on the wall, with no support below it. That was also a mistake.

So here is how it should be done. Feeder needs to rest on a solid platform below it. I use deep litter, so I built an elevated platform out of 3 - 4" x 8" x 16" solid cement blocks, capped by 1 full and 1 half sized paving stone.......18" x 18" x 2" thick.

View attachment 1047155 View attachment 1047156 View attachment 1047157 View attachment 1047158

This accomplishes two things. It will hold the feeder to the wall to keep it from tipping, and gives the birds a stable base, so when they step on it, it bottoms out on something solid that does not move. When the feeder was hanging on the wall, with the treadle in open space, it was "jumpy" and birds would not stay on it. It also bangs a lot when it opens and closes, which also makes birds nervous and they would avoid using it. Once set on a solid base, they started using it the same day. One figures it out, and the others, if they are hungry enough, will reach in from the side. The "reachers" eventually come back, step on the treadle, get a meal and from there they are home free.

An improvement over the single block in back would be to use a "French cleat", which would be two blocks. Take a 2 x 6 and rip in lengthwise using a 45 degree rip cut. Then mount one half to the feeder, the other half to the wall at just the right height so when you set the feeder down on the base, the two blocks come back together just as they were before you made the rip cut. This will hold the feeder to the wall to keep it from tipping over from the weight of the birds on the treadle. Not likely when it is full, but could happen when it is nearly empty. The advantage of the French Cleat is the feeder is not fixed to the wall, so can simply be lifted up and out to clean it.....dump it....or clean up the base below it, without having to unscrew anything.

A couple key features of this design. Cover over the feed pans hinges at the top and opens to the rear. Birds cannot see the back joint where feed enters, so don't rake feed out. They can barely reach over the front anyway, so eat at the front. Feed falls down on it's own, so no accumulation of old feed or excess feed. Feed waste is almost nothing, even without the supplemental lip extension, which I ordered but am not using.

Cover is held shut by counterweight, plus a spring, which prevents rats from pushing the cover open. Treadle is out in space, so even if enough rats were to pile up on it to open the cover (not big enough to hold that many rats), they can't reach the feed without hopping off, in which case the cover slams shut before they get anything.

And since this is all metal, they can't chew their way in.

All in all, a great piece of work. I would like to see the treadle bar made of heavier stock....and of stainless steel, but that would increase the cost and it works as it is.

In the end, within a week or so after cleaning out all the old litter, with all the waste feed contained within it, and after installing this contraption, the mice moved on. There is no sign of them in there now. And since that was the goal, I'd say the thing works as advertised.

Hi. I have one and it works. I also came up with an idea for the spillage. The feeder will sit on top of this.

Cut some 2x4's to equal 4 that are 24-30 inch long. Attach the 2x4's to make a 4 sided frame. On the bottom, close it with some wood or panel. On the top side staple a fitting piece of hardware cloth (I think 1/2 inch grid holes).

What you should end up with is a square frame that is about 3.5 inches high with the bottom side closed and the top covered with hardware cloth. The waste will fall into the frame and be collected under the hardware cloth. You can turn it over to empty it.

This item works well with the round feeders too as long as you remove the feeder to rat proof storage .

 

[MrsWaz]

Still no issues with the feeder. Continues work as before. I never did have rats, but did have mice and this feeder solved that problem. It eliminated the waste feed issue entirely.

You might talk to the builder about using it with ducks. I assume it would work the same. The only issue I can think of might be the treadle bar might need to be a bit larger.

May be a strange question, but have you had any birds not standing on the treadle have their heads inside when the bird on the treadle steps off, so the other hen gets the door closed on her??

 

[Folly's place]

Welcome!
This is an older thread, and I just looked @Howard E up, he's been off since 2021. Miss him too, BTW. If you click on a member's name, it will let you know when they last posted on this site.
Mary

 

[Al Gerhart]

May be a strange question, but have you had any birds not standing on the treadle have their heads inside when the bird on the treadle steps off, so the other hen gets the door closed on her??

Hello,
I'll answer that question for you.
The door swings in, not down, so a hen would have her head pushed out of the way should that happen as her body and head would be reaching in from the side toward the center of the feeder. A good idea is to block both sides of the feeder using a couple of cinder blocks or a couple of milk jugs filled with water or sand, forcing all birds to come in straight ahead.

So yes, it could happen, but it is unlikely that their head would become trapped unlike a guillotine style feeder like the Grandpa feeder or another of the Chinese made clones.

That said, here in Oklahoma we have a saying: Farm animals are never completely safe around moving machinery or Oklahoma State Senators. The risks of having vermin around a flock are greater than the risk of a treadle feeder.

 

[Al Gerhart]

Welcome!
This is an older thread, and I just looked @Howard E up, he's been off since 2021. Miss him too, BTW. If you click on a member's name, it will let you know when they last posted on this site.
Mary

Howard was a treasure. No one did more research on rodents and chickens than that guy did.

 

[Lynnski]

Hello,
I'll answer that question for you.
The door swings in, not down, so a hen would have her head pushed out of the way should that happen as her body and head would be reaching in from the side toward the center of the feeder. A good idea is to block both sides of the feeder using a couple of cinder blocks or a couple of milk jugs filled with water or sand, forcing all birds to come in straight ahead.

So yes, it could happen, but it is unlikely that their head would become trapped unlike a guillotine style feeder like the Grandpa feeder or another of the Chinese made clones.

That said, here in Oklahoma we have a saying: Farm animals are never completely safe around moving machinery or Oklahoma State Senators. The risks of having vermin around a flock are greater than the risk of a treadle feeder.

Im so happy i searched this topic and found you @Al Gerhart ! I have a very small flock (6-8) and at the first hint of vermin, got a treadle feeder and never looked back. The one i have is from tractor supply with the green top. You are right on about plastic parts! They cant get in it because it latches, but things with teeth have chewed holes in the top and it is no longer weatherproof!

I am thrilled to find your treadle because i need another and know that all-steel is the way to go. I have tried them all but no success. The one i hoped would work was the guillotine type. My 8wk olds wont go near it. Noisy, flimsy, not weatherproof. Looking forward to trying yours!

 

[Al Gerhart]

Good on you for being so proactive on the rodents but sad that some inferior products wasted your hard earned money. That Dutch feeder with the green plastic parts is certainly being dumped in the U.S. after it developed a bad reputation in the EU. They actually make some versions of that feeder in all metal.

Keep in mind that the two treadle feeders you have tried weren't rat proof, in that they had wide treadle steps close into the feed, and the doors aren't spring pre loaded to prevent rodents from pushing the door open. This door is going to be harder to open, it has to be, so you need some full size birds to operate the feeder and it HAS to be secured to a wall or post or staked down to the ground. But your birds will need enough reach and enough weight for this feeder to do its job.

Past that, the chickens HAVE to be hungry during training. IF you follow the directions, they will learn in a few hours or less for some of the birds and those will teach the others.

One other thing, use at least three patio blocks under the feeder so the birds have a comfortable spot to stand in front of the feeder before they step on the treadle with one foot while standing on the other foot.

 

[chicken ko]

What a great review and post, warts and all on our product which we love to see and get the feedback. I rarely have the luxury of this much time to post on BYC but I probably should answer some of the questions posed in this thread.



Quality



Yeah, we do plead guilty to having a fairly crude product. In our opinion engineering a product is first making it reliable and durable, second is affordable, pretty is way down the list. However we do understand that a lot of people look at the aesthetics of a product and might judge a book by its cover., that is a wise tactic most of the time. Given the cheap labor we have in the Philippines where we make our feeders we could make it much prettier but at a higher cost and boy is it tough to get machinery and supplies into that country. Another thing, selling a product that needs assembly to OCD types is not a good idea so crude is a good thing. BTW, we are an American company, American owned and American ran shop overseas, and very little money stays overseas. I personally inspect each feeder before it is shipped.



Instructions



We have struggled with the instructions too over the years since this product came to life on this very BYC forum in 2012/2013. Too long and people complain and won't read, too short and you leave out important details. We did some videos last year that help and have them plastered all over our Facebook, Youtube, website, and shopping cart but getting links into printed instructions.... tough to get people to take the time to copy that info into a browser. Maybe we need a CD to include in the feeder? But yes, the block gets screwed to a wall or post, some wire it to a sturdy fence but a solid object is better, then you slip the feeder over the block and run screws in from the side.



And yes, that treadle has to bottom out. The reviewer did a great job installing his feeder once he realized why this is so important. Birds are great at balancing on limbs but learning to use the feeder and having it wobble around isn't optimum. And yes, the feeder will turn over if a eight pound bird jumps on it so having it secured to a wall, post, fence, or a big chunk of plywood that is staked to the ground prevents overturning and it also makes the birds more confident when learning to use the feeder. French cleats can be made using the block that we supply, simply rip it at a 45 degree angle, any angle actually and fasten half to the feeder and half to the wall. Another one of those small things that we could do to make the feeder better but again it drives up the cost a bit each time we have to do something extra. Maybe we could offer these as an add on or option....



Optional Feed Lip and Feed Raking



The optional feed lip, yes, rarely needed, maybe 5% of customers have a bird that will rake so much that it defeats the 1/2” angled feed lip already on the feeder. We sell them on their own for a buck and another $2.00 for shipping although it is getting more like $3.00 to ship recently.



Stainless Steel



We did look at stainless steel for the feeder and found out that it is possible to use it for the treadle bar at a cost of about $2.00 per feeder. Doesn't sound like a lot until you are making a thousand feeders at a time. Hard on our manual punches that cut the 1/4” holes in the treadle bar and some of the chicks (LOL, ,bad pun) that help make our feeders can't pull that hard on the machine punch handle. Yeah, we use some girl power at our Philippines shop to the shock and dismay of some of the locals. Very conservaitve society on some things. We also looked at stainless steel for the body of the feeder but the cost and difficult in shearing it and punching the holes using hand punches set us back on doing a stainless steel version for now.



Noise



All Ball, we do have a soft close feeder for $15.00 more and you can retrofit your older model feeder for the same cost. Plenty of videos up on our websites showing how to retrofit or install the soft close kit. You can even fasten a styrofoam block on the back of the door and make the darned feeder almost silent in operation. And if you have problems with one of our feeders please, please, please, email us and send us pictures or videos. I might be wrong but I believe from one of the comments the poster of this review might have contacted us with questions or concerns and we were able to get him going and make the feeder work for his flock. Emails though please, no phone calls! Much easier to help via email.



Eating from the Side



And a cure for the reach around eaters is to set the feeder in a corner and/or add something like a concrete block on either side to stop them from approaching from the side. But as the OP said, hunger is very, very, powerful as a motivator. The will act like velociraptors once they are hungry. The OP covered ALL of the most important things about training and installing our feeders and yeah, they get hungry, they are going to use the feeder in a few hours or a day at most. However, these posts about all the old feed in the litter are true so clean out your pen if you want fast training.



What I especially love about this review is the fact that the reviewer admits that the birds didn't take to the feeder at first and what caused that, the feeder wasn't rock solid installed. On occasion people get angry when we ask them if they followed the directions but every single time we helped people something came out that told us they hadn't read, hadn't followed, or hadn't understood the feeder. Instructions, the install instructions, or the training instructions. I worked with one super smart guy for the better part of a week via email till I found out the problem, he admitted that he wasn't following the instructions but was using logic to train the birds. Logic is great on humans but useless on chickens! He was trying to “acclimate” the birds by blocking the treadle open, something we say over and over again in the instructions to never, ever, do. Once he followed the directions exactly the birds learned that very day. They mobbed the feeder that afternoon after he used his toe to show them the food just like we told him they would. Chickens are chickens, all are timid, all are ferocious once they are hungry.



Outside Installed Feeders



A note on critters and outside installed feeders. Crows and Jays aren't going to defeat the feeder unless there is a lot of them. Not enough reach on a crow even if they overwhelmed the treadle, unless there are enough and they will cooperate by taking turns eating. Rabbits might have enough reach and enough weight if the learned to use their back feet to hold down the treadle. Part of the effectiveness of our feeder is that narrow and distant treadle and part of it is the larger vermin not ever discovering when the feed is located. The spring loaded door does help a lot but enough larger critters are going to be able to push their way in if you have the feeder spring adjusted for smaller birds. Packs of squirrels are a problem too but the feeder will trap them inside so if the door ever won't open you probably have a dead squirrel inside or a very mad one. Take him for a car ride is our best advice.



Bantams



... there is a trade off, if it is set light enough for a bantam to use and has a wider platform the banties can use the feeder but it is also far less ratproof. We sell a bantam step to the the small birds close enough to eat the feed once they have the treadle down and a turkey step to allow the much larger birds enough room to get its much longer head and neck into the feeder. With bantams it is far better to let them learn to eat from the side along with another bird, but block off the actual sides of the feeder so the are on the treadle. Use the soft close, ten times more time for them to react and get their head out of the way. We have a saying in Oklahoma: Barnyard animals are never completely safe around moving machinery and Oklahoma State Senators.



Bantam treadles

We can do that if you request it in writing on the order and email us to make sure someone doesn't miss the order note. We will punch a couple of extra holes in the treadle or even make you a special short bantam treadle bar if given enough time before shipping. However, the spring is easily adjusted using two pairs of pliers (yes, video is online showing how to do this) and the extra holes aren't usually needed and the Bantam Step works far better and is more adjustable than a shorter treadle bar. Normal size birds will find the bantam step too short for easy use of the feeder.



And Naser is correct, the lighter the action the less rat proof even with the spring loaded door.



Follys Place, 45 birds per feeder will work but they will empty the feeder in two to two and a half days. Plus some will have to wait and that generates pecking order battles till they adjust. On huge flocks, some commercial free range flocks use our feeders, you can get away with that many birds per feeder because with twenty feeders there are always some open for business.



Follow Up Posts by the OP



The treadle is almost too narrow for RIR, on purpose, we designed the initial feeder using RIR. One of the reasons why the feeder lip extender is rarely needed is that once you get a hen stretched out with one foot back holding the treadle she has to focus on balancing and eating, not raking feed. And of course to keep the vermin from reaching the feed if a dozen of them mobbed the treadle. One or two large rats won't be strong enough to overcome the door preload spring so chance are they will have starved out and left before enough of them try to push their way in past the stiff spring loaded door. Another reason for never, ever, blocking the door of a treadle feeder open. Once vermin know the feed is inside and how to get to it they are much harder to keep out.





Anyway, our thanks to the OP for the wonderful review and detailed feedback. If anyone else has tried and had issues please email with video and pictures of the installation or the birds having problems. Remember, rock solid, bottom out the treadle, adjust the spring using two pairs of pliers, no old feed, no other fee, no free range, follow the training instructions to the very letter, nothing added, nothing missing, and your birds will pick up using the feeder in one day or less. Try to use logic with the chickens, argue with me about how to train, and you have bought an expensive and ugly paperweight. : )

Hi -
I would really like to purchase your feeder but notice you don't ship to canada on your online form. Can I connect with you to pay shipping another way? I wrote to you on your website but no reply, so hopefully here will work! thanks!