Ready to throw in the towel!

[Bryant Redhawk]

I have had to replace my flock three times due to disease or predation. I've had to say good-bye to more chickens than I care to ever in a lifetime; many times by my own hand. Despite thousands spent on coops, wire, feeders, feed, incubators, brooders, traps, decoys, and medicine, my flock continues to decline. I lost my best, and most beautiful, breeder last night to another Owl attack. My backyard is a mess of chicken poo and dead plants that will never return, and I've given up on trying to grow my grass back. I can't sleep past 4 AM because that's when the roosters wake up....
When do you decide that enough is enough? I have, for the most part, enjoyed this hobby. But, that's all it ever was or will be. I don't sell or eat the eggs, we don't show the chickens, and the level of destruction to my backyard is very likely insurmountable. I've even had to pay to repair the paint on my car after my red sex-links decided it would be a good place to roost! I love my babies; perhaps enough to know that I don't want to see another one ripped to pieces by opportunistic and uncontrollable birds of prey.
I'm not writing this for pity points. I'm looking for an honest discussion regarding thoughts, experiences, opinions, and advice. This is a big decision, and I want to be as informed as possible before making it.

It sounds like you might not have the sky covered to prevent raptors from swooping in for a meal. I like 80 lb. test red colored fishing line strung back and forth so the whole run area is a wing trap for any raptors, this means no opening between the lines is over 12 inches across. The red color is for the raptors to see the fishing line (they will avoid the area because even if they did get in, they would not be able to get out fast. As far as when is enough, enough. That is something only you can decide, if you are so exasperated that you just don't care anymore, then you are at that point of "time to call it quits", if you aren't to that dark place, then take in what those predators have taught you and apply the lessons learned, then perhaps try thinking like the predator and do any preventative measure you discover with that process. I've lost only one flock and I took all the steps necessary to make sure that it doesn't happen again. (If you really want to grow grass back, I can offer you methods that work to do that within one growing season.)

 

[starri33]

I've posted over in Coop Design what my new coop is basically going to look like, I wasn't all that sure of where to post it.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/coop-and-run.1282225/

 

[ChickenCanoe]

IMO, keeping chickens in an enjoyable and carefree manner is all about management.
First time chicken keepers that didn't grow up on a farm often miss things that those of us who did find second nature. Try as they might and with the best intentions, some end up with disaster after disaster.
First and foremost, one's climate matters most. It's not just about latitude. Keeping chickens in Maine is different than in Montana. Keeping chickens in Florida or Louisiana is much different than west Texas or Southern California. Just as those locales are different from Missouri, Costa Rica, South Africa or the Philippines.
I usually caution new keepers to treat advice from books, magazines and even online forums with a grain of salt. If the author is experienced with husbandry in Texas, their advice may not hold water in those other locations.
Other important considerations are breed selection(dictated by climate), predation, housing, ventilation, stocking density, nutrition.
One shouldn't keep Orloffs or Chanteclers in Texas or similarly hot climates. By extension, I wouldn't keep Seramas, Fayoumis or even Leghorns in Minnesota or Alaska.
Someone with chickens in Hawaii may have few predator concerns. But we have hawks, owls, raccoons, mink, weasels, opossum, fox, coyote, feral and neighbor's dogs and the occasional bobcat, mountain lion or black bear. I have to build with those animals in mind.
Housing has to be appropriate for the climate and stocking density. Another common mistake the unenlightened make is trying to keep chickens warm. Chickens can handle cold much better than heat. I've lost birds to heat, (especially in a summer that stayed over 100 and hit 110 a couple times) but I've never lost a bird to cold, even down to -20F. Trying to keep chickens warm (unnecessarily) results in closing off the most vital need of chickens - fresh air. As important as nutrition and water are, lots of fresh air is more important. They are outdoor animals with tiny respiratory systems that can quickly be compromised by foul air, fungus, ammonia, pathogens, etc.. The humidity in a closed coop will cause frostbite and nurture pathogens. They really only need a coop for predator protection at night and to shed cold rain. I've had chickens live in trees till taken by a predator. Regardless of weather, they returned in the morning healthy as can be with lungs full of fresh air.
The more chickens per sq. ft., the more intensely managed they need to be.
Sticking with the data gleaned from a century of nutritional research available to all of us and not trying to reinvent the wheel when we feed fowl, the fewer problems we'll have.
Build well ventilated structures like Fort Knox and determine how you'll deal with daytime predators if free ranging.

 

[MissChick@dee]

Another POV to this. I have recently been diagnosed with at least 3 types of inflammatory and degenerative arthritis and currently have a flock of approximately 50 birds. I started my flock 5 years ago when we retired as a hobby to keep me active. These little feathered souls depend on me to haul myself up and outside every day, twice a day to feed and water them no matter how badly I hurt or how bad I feel. Everytime I go out I am helping myself staying active. One more day the diseases don't win and I do.

I do not eat my chickens. I do eat a lot of eggs as does dh and what we don't eat we give away to people who need them. We never charge we never accept payment. I'm playing blessings forward.

As of date I have not lost one bird to predation. Why? Chain link run, nets covering the runs, coop sided with metal siding. Securely locking door and pop doors. The entire run is hot wired. We have coyotes, fox, cougars, owls, hawks and bald eagles. I came home last week to find a red tailed hawk sitting not 50 feet from my run watching the bantams. Watching is all he could do.

I hope y'all see where I'm going here. No matter what you do you are going to have to contend with predators. It's up to you to see to it that your birds do not wind up on one of their buffet tables.

You will enjoy your birds more if they are safe and you can watch them from the outside of their pen. Don't get me wrong, I fully understand what it is like to loose birds. I've lost over 30 to Marek's disease in the past 4 years. Somethings no matter what you do you can't keep your birds safe from. But keeping them safe from predators is doable and really simple. Lock them up in their own pen and coop! Make it impossible for a predator to get in and treat any predator that you see with extreme prejudice.

I hope you find the answer that is right for you. Personally, I think it would be sad for you to throw up your arms in defeat. But the final decision is yours and yours alone.

Good for you! And yes keeping them secured does lessen opportunities for predation and your stress too.
As we get older we face physical challenges. I guarantee you that the effort you put in on “bad” days will keep you healthier, longer.
So rock on with your chicken keepin’ bad-self.

 

[WthrLady]

Another POV to this. I have recently been diagnosed with at least 3 types of inflammatory and degenerative arthritis and currently have a flock of approximately 50 birds. I started my flock 5 years ago when we retired as a hobby to keep me active. These little feathered souls depend on me to haul myself up and outside every day, twice a day to feed and water them no matter how badly I hurt or how bad I feel. Everytime I go out I am helping myself staying active. One more day the diseases don't win and I do.

I hope you find the answer that is right for you. Personally, I think it would be sad for you to throw up your arms in defeat. But the final decision is yours and yours alone.

Ding Ding Ding!
It's why I keep building large farm buildings, planted an orchard, a 2000 square foot garden, and just started an alpaca ranch. They need worked/trained almost daily. (Winter's brutal chill is making it really hard to get those joints moving.)

You think chickens are crabby when you're late with the food? Take a hork of alpaca spit upside the head!

 

[MissChick@dee]

Ding Ding Ding!
It's why I keep building large farm buildings, planted an orchard, a 2000 square foot garden, and just started an alpaca ranch. They need worked/trained almost daily. (Winter's brutal chill is making it really hard to get those joints moving.)

You think chickens are crabby when you're late with the food? Take a hork of alpaca spit upside the head!

A HORK gotta love it!!
I’ma gonna use that.
“honey don’t be a hork just take out the garbage”

 

[microchick]

Well put @ChickenCanoe.

And you bet I'll rock on @MissChick@dee and @WthrLady. You should check in on the thread I started 'keeping chickens when you have arthritis'. My motto is never give up and never surrender.

Keeping chickens is a learning experience that begins the moment you first hold a little fuzz ball in your hand and doesn't end until you dig a hole and bury that little fuzz ball once it's grown into an old tired chicken. They are demanding, infuriating, hysterically funny and will bring tears to the toughest eyes. Our vet once told us when we admitted to him that we had acquired sheep...So have you dug the hole you are going to need once they start dying? He wasn't being cruel. He raised and showed sheep as well as was an excellent vet. But he was reminding us that if you have live stock sooner or later you will have dead stock.

In the mean time you carry on, gathering and acquiring knowledge and racking up experience and just when you think you have this keeping chicken thing figured out, one will either go get its silly self killed or fall ill and you are back to square one.

Keeping chickens isn't for the feint of heart. You have to be a bit of a masochist and at the same time be a vet, a nurse, a farmer, a gardener... the list goes on.

But between me and everybody out there, I wouldn't have missed this experience for anything money can buy. They may be silly chickens but when they rush to greet me when I open the coop door in the morning eager to see what treat I have brought them, I feel like queen of the farm!

 

[WthrLady]

Oh I like the "sending you to the cornfield" look they give you when you don't let them out to roam, it's cold out, it's wet out, "what?! you came out here WITHOUT raisins?!", "oh lord, you let her hatch eggs again", "why won't you let me hatch eggs again?

They are a hoot. (and a half)

 

[Acre4Me]

Curious why you have chickens. You mentioned you don’t eat the eggs, but lost a breeder. So, are you trying to breed and sell fertile eggs or chicks? Or to have the country experience complete with chickens roaming yard? Whatever the reason, it is your reason. And during the good times, were your goals met? If so, then it seems like you should persevere, just fix the problems. If chicken keeping is nothing like you imagined and you Don’t like it, then stop and find something else to do.

Sounds like you had felt that confining birds was bad, so you free ranged with surpringly detrimental effects. By now you realize that predators don’t kill nicely, and need to change tactics. 1. Assume some kills but keep free-ranging, always keeping a few extra birds since some will be lost. 2. Confine to a run, but takes money and time to build. 3. Stop everything and take the current loss, and no more -maybe recoup some by selling the coops and supplies.

Using a run can work well- the birds will get used to their environment quicker than you think. We have a 500 sq ft run that we did not build. Some previous owner had fenced off 10x50 section behind the detached garage for a dog run. We plopped coop in here, and are slowly improving it with roof and enclosing with wire (eventually). They get some free range time, but only when we can let them out. However, their 500 sq ft of run isn’t horrible at all and I could argue they are free range as they have all day access to coop or run, but locked inside for the night. We have 14 chickens age 38 weeks and 7 chicks age 11 weeks, so 25 chickens total, including 2 roosters.

How much room do you have to work with? Can you place coop farther from your bedroom window? How many chickens s do you have today?

 

[Blooie]

Love this thread and the replies. @ChickenCanoe nailed it! I think what I loved best about having them is how much I grew as the gramma/caregiver to my two amazing disabled granddaughters. And that’s what made giving the chickens up hardest on me - little Kendra pulling herself up at the front door calling, “Chickens, Chickens.” and them not being out there anymore was pretty tough. Together - me, the girls, and the chickens - all found ways to increase Katie and Kendra’s confidence, empathy for other creatures, and physical abilities.

Who’d have thought that we could leave town for a week, putting an 8 year old with Autism totally in charge, and come back to things done so perfectly we didn’t even have to go out there to check? Katie had it down! Every time we left town for days at a time! And who’d have thought that Kendra would be out of her wheelchair at 4 years old, walking (with assistance) to the house carrying a basket of eggs? We learned to push when we could, when to back off, and those girls loved those chickens so much!

And I have a confession to make. After this thread started, Ken and I were talking at breakfast about it while we ate our store-bought eggs. He reminded me that the heaviest part of our travel schedule will be complete by April. He suggested that we get a few chickens in May. We won’t end up with the 27 we had before, because in the last two years I’ve come to understand that chicken math was NOT our friend. But he wants a few, I want a few, and the girls will be thrilled! So we ordered chicks that very night. So thank you!