reason for chick dead in shell after pipping (under broody hen)?

[patandchickens]

Maudie has got 2 chicks now, but one of the remaining two eggs pipped yesterday (beak all the way out) but then died. I broke it out last night and there was nothing at all wrong with it, except being dead. I feel so bad for the poor little thing, getting all the way to the finish line so to speak and then dying

What do you think the cause would have been?

Would Maudie have sat on it the wrong way and suffocated it?

Or could it have been my fault, for moving Maudie (with 2 hatched and 2 unpipped-at-the-time eggs) out of her elevated nestbox the other day, onto the dry shavings on the floor, after finding her out of the nestbox and apparently unable to climb back up and with the 2 newly hatched chicks peeping distressedly? Is it possible that the floor shavings were so dry they 'sucked the dampness out' of the pipped egg membrane and the chick got stuck because of it?

Or could it have just been too big a chick to maneuver around to zip the shell -- it was a *very* full egg and large chick...?

I am just worried that if I shouldn't have moved Maudie the way I did, then I ought to know about it so I don't make the same mistake again next time

Any suggestions appreciated,

Pat, suspecting the 4th egg is probably a deader but happy to have the 2 chicks at least

 

[Sunny Side Up]

There are just so many variables involved there's no way I could tell what caused that chick's death, and whether or not your intervention was helpful or not. I know it's heartbreaking to wait 3 weeks and see a fully-formed chick half out of its shell only to die there.

How long were the other 2 chicks out of their shells? Why do you think the hen was out of the nest & on the floor? Were the first 2 chicks old enough to be taken for their first outing? Sometimes the hen will settle for the first chicks that hatch, and once they're about 24 hours old will take them out of the nest & leave the rest in the nest.

I don't think the dry shavings dehydrated the chick in its shell, but maybe it got too dry if the hen was off the nest for too long. I'd think the hen knows how & where to step & sit on her eggs & chicks so as to not squash them, but who knows?

I think it's one of those darned-if-you-do, darned-if-you-don't situations. Maybe worse things would have happened if you didn't move the 2 live chicks & the eggs to the floor. Maybe those 2 remaining chicks never would have made it no matter where they were.

I know folks have had their hens successfully hatch chicks in an elevated nest site, and then bring them all down to the ground after they've hatched with no problems. I had a hen who made her nest on the roof of a coop one time, and I moved her & the nest to ground level a few days before the chicks hatched, just to be sure.

I'm sorry for your dilemma & the loss, but glad your hen has at least 2 good chicks to hatch from this clutch.

 

[patandchickens]

Thanks for the helpful reply!

How long were the other 2 chicks out of their shells?

One had been out less than 24 hours, the other about 8-12.

Why do you think the hen was out of the nest & on the floor? Were the first 2 chicks old enough to be taken for their first outing?

Hm, I was thinking that she was out b/c she either was hungry/thirsty or seriously wanted to take a poo (she did have the most *enormous huge awful* poo while on the floor there). But now that I think about it, I suppose it is POSSIBLE that her instincts are just not quite up to speed and she thought it was time to take the two hatched chicks out for breakfast. That's a thought.

I am kicking myself for not putting the other 2 eggs in an incubator after the first 2 chicks hatched -- I actually did have the incubator turned on and up to temp, just in case, and I considered doing it, but was afraid that they'd have less chance of hatching there than under the hen, and that if they did hatch in the incubator she might not accept being given them back. I guess I'll never know, but next time 'round with a broody hen, I think I may be inclined to go the incubator route with "late" eggs, as this has been rather depressing. (Of course it might not have turned out any better in the incubator, who knows).

She does seem to be taking good care of the 2 existing chicks, though, so that's good.

Thanks,

Pat​

 

[Sunny Side Up]

It's impossible to say whether the outcome would have been any different if you (or the hen) had done anything differently. If you had put those 2 eggs in the 'bator & they didn't hatch you'd be wondering if you should have left them under the hen. And the hen's individual component of broody skills has a lot to do with it too. Some manage to get the job done better than others. But again, without second sight it's impossible to say whether or not that 3rd chick could have hatched under any other circumstances.

It seems that chickens don't strive for 100%, and unless we're raising rare heritage breeds, we should be willing to accept their philosophy. They lay more eggs than they need to hatch, they hatch more chicks than they need to raise to maturity. There are a lot of reasons eggs don't develop, and chicks stop developing throughout incubation. Some things can be helped, many can not.

You're right to question this outcome, to see if there could be anything you could do better next time. But don't waste time with woulda/coulda/shoulda, in this case I don't think anyone could say for sure.

How is Maudie doing now with her chickies?

 

[patandchickens]

You're right, thank you for the sensible pep talk

She is still being a good mommy - I have the waterer (with marbles) and feeder, and loose feed on a plastic lid on the floor, sitting *right* in front of her, so she is still camped out in the corner with her remaining egg, and the two chickies come out to eat and drink and peep and then burrow back under her feathers.

The remaining egg is still alive btw -- I candled it late this afternoon and to my surprise saw definite movement and I *think* it had maybe pipped into the air cell. It's been dim in there all afternoon (storms) and of course is getting to be night now, so hopefully she will keep sitting on that egg til it hatches. Keeping fingers crossed for a better outcome...

Thanks,

Pat

 

[Akane]

could it have been my fault, for moving Maudie (with 2 hatched and 2 unpipped-at-the-time eggs) out of her elevated nestbox the other day, onto the dry shavings on the floor, after finding her out of the nestbox and apparently unable to climb back up and with the 2 newly hatched chicks peeping distressedly?

More likely they got too dry while the hen was stuck off the nest. Moving them quickly was the right thing to do in my opinion. If you'd left things alone they'd definitely die. If you put the hen and chicks back up she might just take them back down again and get stuck.​

 

[peepinglaura]

Quote:
I've had 2 chicks (separate hatches) die in the incubator while hatching, with their beaks out of the shell. It's so tempting to analyze your own (imaginary) missteps and shortcomings, but it's seriously just a weird, sad part of animal life.

Laura

 

[patandchickens]

Hey, the last egg hatched successfully! Probably pretty recently since the chick looked half-wet when I peeked underneath Maude. (Edited to add: oh POOH. I went back 2 hours later, and it was dead

It was flattened into the bedding, dunno if that was the cause of death or if maybe Maudie got up and it got too cold and died, or the other chicks (3 days older) pecked it too hard on the head, or what. No visible wounds or anything, just dead. RATS

Pat

 

[Sunny Side Up]

Whoops, I posted congratulations too soon, only to read your sad update. I was happy, but surprised, to read that Maudie got another chick to hatch. My hens here haven't had that happen, even if they decide to return to the nest after their first outing with the older chicks. I figured it would be too difficult for everyone to have dry, fluffy, hungry, ambulatory chicks in the same nest as wet, weak newborn chicks. That newest chick might just not have had enough of the Right Stuff to survive anyway, no matter when or how it was hatched.

I hope & pray Maude will now do an exceptional job mothering her two GIRLS.

edited to change everything I just said

 

[TheWestFarmers]

We had a pipped chick die in the shell today, just a couple hours ago. The hole was open yesterday, beak out and all and moving, still alive this morning and early afternoon. Just a short while ago, I realized it was not moving anymore and opened the egg up to see what went wrong. What I found was turned into a science lesson for the kids.

The one foot I had to pull out from under the umbilical cord. I compared the feet and realized the stuck foot had been stuck for quite a while and grew horribly deformed. Instead of the toes curled down like the other foot, they were bent up backwards at where it was caught. I suspect the hatching struggle damaged the umbilical before its time to not be needed or just prevented the rest of the yolk sac from being drawn through the umbilical into the belly. I did notice the belly area looking very strange, the yolk sac still out.

Other chicks have died while hatching and looked perfect. One died while hatching because it got cold. We were too curious to see our first hatch years ago, and it got cold, plus if the air isn't humid enough, the membrane can dry on the fur and prevent hatching mobility.

If you have a long time between hatchlings, next time you could confine the hen to the nest and bring the hatched ones in the house under a lamp until the others are hatched, or put the remaining eggs under another broody hen, yours or a friend's, or in the incubator for a day or two. I've never had to do separate new babies from mama hen, just an idea.

One time, we were moving out, and let the animals stay a couple weeks longer until we were ready to move them. We just couldn't wait any longer, we were worried about predators with us not living there, but just coming by once a day to feed/water them. The duck wouldn't set on the eggs in the cage, and they were going to get cold and die, maybe before we even got home. So we took them to a friend's house and put them under a broody chicken. It was so adorable that she hatched one and adopted it, and so very sad for the hen that we had to take the duckling away a few days later to live with us and she hadn't any eggs of her own at the time, just brooding on an empty nest until we brought the 2 duck eggs over. She seemed to forget about her ugly chickling by a couple days later, so it worked out. We didn't open the other egg so don't know what went wrong.