Recessive and dominant white in silkies

[truegritacd0]

I've had paint silkies for several years now and they were just a fun pen but this past year I've decided to concentrate on improving the quality of my birds and focusing on colors. I know that when breeding paints you're supposed to get paints, blacks and whites but in the several years I've been breeding this particular group of birds. I always get comments about them having good white color and not having any yellow/gold leakage. I've never produced solid blacks or solid whites until this year. I have not added any new paints to my line since I got the original birds I started with, except this year I put one of my white showgirls hens with them to get paint showgirls. I've gotten solid white birds this year and hatched 3 chicks with partridge feathers, not black. I read on a post in byc, that paints are basically a partridge bird with dominant white gene. Any info is appreciated and should I keep the whites and breed them to see what I get?
I've added some pics of 2 of my paints and some from the birds that have partridge feathers.

 

[Debbie292d]

Oh boy. We were just talking about partridge silkies in my silkies thread, but never heard of nor had an issue with partridge getting into my paints.

What two birds were you breeding before you added the showgirl? If it was two paints, then yes, you should have been getting blacks and whites as well as paints. 100% paint is achieved by breeding a dominant white silkie to a black silkie.

If you start here on my thread, pay attention to what @NatJ posted in a couple spots about the partridge and dominant white. That might help.

 

[NatJ]

That is definitely a bit odd.

I know that when breeding paints you're supposed to get paints, blacks and whites

Yes. Paints typically have the genes to be a black chicken, plus one dominant white gene. When you breed them together, you get some white chicks (inherit dominant white from both parents), some paint chicks (inherit dominant white from just one parent) and some black chicks (do not inherit dominant white from either parent.

I read on a post in byc, that paints are basically a partridge bird with dominant white gene.

I would guess that someone was mixed up when they posted that.

Paints are generally based on black.
But white Silkies are often based on partridge, plus two genes for recessive white.

So I'm thinking someone made a post with those two mixed up.

I've never produced solid blacks or solid whites until this year.

That is a strong indication that you actually have something different going on genetically, not paint. I'm suspecting something like Columbian or Silver Partridge, but with more white and less black than either of those usually has. But I'm not entirely sure.

I have not added any new paints to my line since I got the original birds I started with, except this year I put one of my white showgirls hens with them to get paint showgirls.

Is the showgirl solid white? Or does she have some bits of black? I can't quite tell in the picture.

I've gotten solid white birds this year

That could happen if the showgirl has dominant white and the "paints" do not.
Or it could happen if the showgirl has recessive white, and your paint rooster also has one recessive white gene.

and hatched 3 chicks with partridge feathers, not black.

Those have me a bit puzzled. That should only be possible if they are genetically gold (vs. silver). A female can only be gold if she inherits it from her father. A male can only be gold if he inherits it from both parents. For either sex, it calls for the father having the gold gene. But the father is not showing gold. And he is probably not carrying it either, given his nice clean white color. (Silver is dominant over gold, so he could show silver and carry gold, but birds like that will usually show a yellowish or dirty-looking color, not a nice clean white/silver color.)

Is there any chance that any of the hens had contact with any other rooster? That is an easy explanation for off-color chicks if it happened to be true.

 

[truegritacd0]

Oh boy. We were just talking about partridge silkies in my silkies thread, but never heard of nor had an issue with partridge getting into my paints.

What two birds were you breeding before you added the showgirl? If it was two paints, then yes, you should have been getting blacks and whites as well as paints. 100% paint is achieved by breeding a dominant white silkie to a black silkie.

If you start here on my thread, pay attention to what @NatJ posted in a couple spots about the partridge and dominant white. That might help.

Like I stated in my post that I had a pen with only paint silkies and I added a white show girl to the mix. But I had been breeding those paints for a couple of yrs and I only hatched paint chicks, no blacks or whites. I was given the paints from a friend originally and they came from a paint silkie breeder. So the paints were from strictly paint lines. This year is the first year I've gotten whites and the 3 paints with partridge spots. I will read your post, thank you.

 

[truegritacd0]

That is definitely a bit odd.



Yes. Paints typically have the genes to be a black chicken, plus one dominant white gene. When you breed them together, you get some white chicks (inherit dominant white from both parents), some paint chicks (inherit dominant white from just one parent) and some black chicks (do not inherit dominant white from either parent.


I would guess that someone was mixed up when they posted that.

Paints are generally based on black.
But white Silkies are often based on partridge, plus two genes for recessive white.

So I'm thinking someone made a post with those two mixed up.


That is a strong indication that you actually have something different going on genetically, not paint. I'm suspecting something like Columbian or Silver Partridge, but with more white and less black than either of those usually has. But I'm not entirely sure.


Is the showgirl solid white? Or does she have some bits of black? I can't quite tell in the picture.


That could happen if the showgirl has dominant white and the "paints" do not.
Or it could happen if the showgirl has recessive white, and your paint rooster also has one recessive white gene.


Those have me a bit puzzled. That should only be possible if they are genetically gold (vs. silver). A female can only be gold if she inherits it from her father. A male can only be gold if he inherits it from both parents. For either sex, it calls for the father having the gold gene. But the father is not showing gold. And he is probably not carrying it either, given his nice clean white color. (Silver is dominant over gold, so he could show silver and carry gold, but birds like that will usually show a yellowish or dirty-looking color, not a nice clean white/silver color.)

Is there any chance that any of the hens had contact with any other rooster? That is an easy explanation for off-color chicks if it happened to be true.

They aren't Columbian or silver, they are strictly back and white paints. I've never gotten anything but paint babies from the pen for years. I don't know about the showgirls parentage but she is solid white. The showgirl in the pic is a paint showgirl baby from the white showgirl. I've attached a pic of my paint silkies and the showgirl hen that I added to the paint pen. There is no chance a different roo got into that pen. The first one with the partridge feathers was hatched at the first of the summer and the 2 I have now are still pretty young. Is it good to keep some of the solid whites. Are they good to have?

 

[NatJ]

They aren't Columbian or silver, they are strictly back and white paints. I've never gotten anything but paint babies from the pen for years. I don't know about the showgirls parentage but she is solid white. The showgirl in the pic is a paint showgirl baby from the white showgirl. I've attached a pic of my paint silkies and the showgirl hen that I added to the paint pen. There is no chance a different roo got into that pen. The first one with the partridge feathers was hatched at the first of the summer and the 2 I have now are still pretty young.

In that case, I don't think I have any useful ideas for why you are getting unexpected colors of chicks.

A question about the photos: it looks like one has a yellowish tone, unlike the others with their nice clean white. Is that one of the parents of the chicks that were unexpected colors? I hadn't noticed that one in the first pictures you posted.

Is it good to keep some of the solid whites. Are they good to have?

They might be. If they are nice birds, they could be worth keeping for that reason. And if you are curious to breed them and see what you get, of course they are good for that too.