Red mites - any more suggestions

[JaeG]

Keeping them contained in the infestation area. Your coop is a sanctuary for your hens but also for parasites. A double edge sword. We just controlled them with Sevin 5%. Then DE'd the coop. Now that I mentioned Sevin, I am going to be attacked.
Sevin is a dirty word. Time to put my catchers mask on. Good luck with what method you choose. But you will only win the battle, not the war.

Neem has eliminated my infestation so unless some pesky birds or rats manage to break in again to re-infect them I think I'll be alright, but I'm definitely checking frequently as they are such a nightmare to get rid of. It's at least a month since I painted the coop and not even the spiders have returned. I can't find any evidence of mites and I know where they hide! My run is also completely covered by a solid roof so no wild birds can sit on the top and share anything that way.

My original girls had lice once from sparrows breaking into their first little run but once that was fixed and I'd eliminated the problem I've never seen a trace of lice again in more than three years, and they do get checked regularly. Without exposure to a host my girls can't be re-infected, and once the lifecycle of the parasite is broken they can't come back without hitching a ride on a host.

 

[Bogtown Chick]

When I painted my coop with neem oil I only had to do it once. I kept regularly checking under the roosts for signs the red mites were returning. Three or four months after my initial painting they did return but that coincided with rats ripping holes in one side of my run to get in (the wire isn't fantastic) which allowed wild birds to get in (my first infestation coincided with an influx of rats under our raised run during summer). Both rats and wild birds can carry mites. So I painted the coop again and have had no more signs that mites are about. Neem acts as a repellent to insects (the resident spiders weren't impressed and quickly evacuated the coop!), interferes with their hormones, preventing them from growing onto the next stage in their development or breeding, and stops them feeding.

As for ash, I've handled it often enough that I know it doesn't do any harm but the 'more diluted' quantities in it must still work on insect pests. Hardwoods take up more potassium from the soil as they grow so they are the wood/ash of choice for lye making (and chicken dust baths). If you look up how to make lye from ash you have to boil ash in soft rainwater for half an hour and then skim off the lye that has collected on top of the water so there's a bit of a process. Lye is nasty (pH 13) which is why I leave soap making to the professionals! I am very thankful to have found a soap maker who uses a 6% lye discount, meaning he uses more oil than necessary to ensure all of the lye is used up in the process. My hands usually dry out, crack and bleed during winter (so painful), but using only his soaps they have been beautiful this winter. Needless to say I am a very happy lady!

I make soap too. I use a 5%discount. It is nice stuff. I'm not a lotion person but I actually don't need it in the winter anymore since I use this soap.

Keeping them contained in the infestation area. Your coop is a sanctuary for your hens but also for parasites. A double edge sword. We just controlled them with Sevin 5%. Then DE'd the coop. Now that I mentioned Sevin, I am going to be attacked.
Sevin is a dirty word. Time to put my catchers mask on. Good luck with what method you choose. But you will only win the battle, not the war.

Poultry dust is the same as Sevin. So maybe I'll get in trouble too. But I tell that stuff helps. I put it just on the roosts and nooks and crannies though. I applied it to birds a couple times and they shook it off in front of me and I didn't feel the greatest after. I can imagine them with their simple airways sniffing that stuff. So now I'm an ivermectin and fro fa la user. Hahaha.

 

[Wickedchicken6]

Some mite populations are showing immunity to permethrins...as they would any over used agent.

The sulpha drugs are antimicrobial...antibiotic. They were used before "antibiotics" such as penicillin and its aftermath were created. They are very effective but can be very toxic if taken too long.

Sulpher mineral powder is a good anti-parasitic agent. It was used by old time farmers to control lice and mite populations before the modern dusting agents came to market. With increase resistance by some populations to modern permethrins, the ag industry is exploring returning to older previous successful methods.

As with any microbe or parasite, they evolve and morph in time by natural selection. Those that aren't killed by an agent due to natural resistance live and populate creating, eventually, a population that is resistant to the agent.

The best course of action is rotation of meds and agents.

LofMc

I think it's incredibly important to have a good rotation for the products we use for parasites to keep the populations at bay/annihilated AND to keep resistant bugs from developing over time as Lady of McCamley mentioned.

A different version...but as cattle producers, we've been advised to bring safeguard into our deworming/parasite program because there is ivermectin resistant parasites being found in the U.S. The idea behind this inclusion is: out of a scale of 100, ivermectin will reach, say, 75% max in the cattle's systems. Ivermectin kills of parasites covers a much greater time period but only reaches that 75% in the system. If 10 parasites survive and live on to breed...eventually those first 10 mites will grow in numbers exponentially IF the person continues to use the same product every time.

Safeguard will reach say, 99.7% max in the cattle's system but for a much shorter time. Safe guard is not creating the parasite resistance. We need to rotate with the safeguard to kill any resistant ivermectin bugs. The slate is then clean to go back to using the ivermectin.

I didn't realize that parasites are already showing resistance to permethrins. That's scary. I intend to bring it into the schedule during the warmer weather and keep the Carbaryl for winter. I'm going to look more into the sulfur idea.
Thank you for that information Lady McM.

 

[Wickedchicken6]

I can't say enough how important it is to finish a course antibiotics or follow up 9 days later with more treatment and another 9 days after that if you still have crawlies. The resistance is from not completing the treatments.

Nightmare scenarios follow.

I missed quoting this. I agree with this as well. It's incredibly important to have the treatments timed correctly to catch the next hatch of parasites before they themselves reproduce.

That being said...I couldn't do it last night as we had obligations...and tonight I have a killer headache. Carbaryl is Not the thing to work with while experiencing a headache of this magnitude. I will be officially over the 7-9 days...but I look forward to getting it done tomorrow night. I don't expect to see any parasites, as I've been checking and I haven't seen any so far....but I wish to be thorough and not miss 2 mites that might procreate.

 

[Wickedchicken6]

I did an experiment this spring. I had an ill hen and she got lice and mites. Which meant that everbody else did too: Spent hens, highly productive pullets and the rooster.

On the Rooster and spent-hens I put on chemical drops of Ivermectin (cattle pour on) drops at the base of the neck under wings and 2 drops by the vent and fluff. (5 drops for standard sized birds ; 2-3 drops for bantam)

For my beautiful laying pullets I didn't want that med in my eggs or to throw out about two-three dozen eggs a week for 3 weeks so I got on searching here at byc.

I started putting garlic cloves in the water and garlic powder in the feed. The coop smelled like a cheap Italian Restaurant... And then I took NuStock and blended it with eucalyptus oil (repellent). I would dab everyother day the NuStock/Eucalyptus oil compound on the skin below the vent (can be precarious applications) And I also did a few dots under the wings. And then their legs which I think is the gateway for mites coming off the roost onto the bird. I did all this froo-fa-la with thoughts that things would be diminished but not cured probably. And that I would have to finish it off with Ivermectin after an egg-break in the summer or what have you.

I cleaned out shavings. I also put Poultry dust in an old ankle high panty hose sock. Tied a knot in one end and covered my face and dusted the corners of the coop and baseboards. Ends of the roosts.

Results: Ivermectin Cattle Pour on after 1st application: Lice and Mites reduced. Reapplied per cycle of nits hatching at day 8-9. 21 day recheck: eradication as expected.

Results: NuStock/Eucaplyptus compound. The Froo-fa-la on my laying pullets with added prayers looked.....
FABULOUS! No bugs! They were in the clear.

I rechecked everybody another month later. Still no lice or mites on any.
It's a little more work but the natural sulfur/pinetar in NuStock and the Eucaplyptus and Garlic (sulfur also) has me convinced that this can be done naturally as well. Pleasantly surprised this spring. The girls didn't really care for the fingers wiping smelly medicine on the skin in their fluff there. But they can just get over it...

That is good information.

When I painted my coop with neem oil I only had to do it once. I kept regularly checking under the roosts for signs the red mites were returning. Three or four months after my initial painting they did return but that coincided with rats ripping holes in one side of my run to get in (the wire isn't fantastic) which allowed wild birds to get in (my first infestation coincided with an influx of rats under our raised run during summer). Both rats and wild birds can carry mites. So I painted the coop again and have had no more signs that mites are about. Neem acts as a repellent to insects (the resident spiders weren't impressed and quickly evacuated the coop!), interferes with their hormones, preventing them from growing onto the next stage in their development or breeding, and stops them feeding.

As for ash, I've handled it often enough that I know it doesn't do any harm but the 'more diluted' quantities in it must still work on insect pests. Hardwoods take up more potassium from the soil as they grow so they are the wood/ash of choice for lye making (and chicken dust baths). If you look up how to make lye from ash you have to boil ash in soft rainwater for half an hour and then skim off the lye that has collected on top of the water so there's a bit of a process. Lye is nasty (pH 13) which is why I leave soap making to the professionals! I am very thankful to have found a soap maker who uses a 6% lye discount, meaning he uses more oil than necessary to ensure all of the lye is used up in the process. My hands usually dry out, crack and bleed during winter (so painful), but using only his soaps they have been beautiful this winter. Needless to say I am a very happy lady!

If we could obtain neem oil, I'd try it.

We used it for multi purposes. Lice, tick or what ever. A light layer of sevin in boxes and bedding as well. I read your reply on my threads. I guessed you would have posted a reply to my suggestion. I don't like to recommend treatments of sevin or use that dirty word and stir up controversy. I don't use Permithin because of reading some species of parasites have become immune to it. Been using sevin for 20 years now and I hope I did not ruin this wonderful thread by mentioning that fact. My catchers mask is held on tight.
Enough about me. Let's help others. But always (was) a pleasure to read your input Kikisgirls.

I don't think Carbaryl is a bad word. I think it's a fine product that a person has to respect when using in regards to precautions and health. I do understand that it's no longer listed for poultry there. I will continue to use it as long as it's available here.

I plan on painting the interiors of this coop and the coop to come with real paint. I think not only will it seal cracks and such...but it will brighten the coop considerably and make detection easier against the white paint.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

I think it's incredibly important to have a good rotation for the products we use for parasites to keep the populations at bay/annihilated AND to keep resistant bugs from developing over time as Lady of McCamley mentioned.

A different version...but as cattle producers, we've been advised to bring safeguard into our deworming/parasite program because there is ivermectin resistant parasites being found in the U.S. The idea behind this inclusion is: out of a scale of 100, ivermectin will reach, say, 75% max in the cattle's systems. Ivermectin kills of parasites covers a much greater time period but only reaches that 75% in the system. If 10 parasites survive and live on to breed...eventually those first 10 mites will grow in numbers exponentially IF the person continues to use the same product every time.

Safeguard will reach say, 99.7% max in the cattle's system but for a much shorter time. Safe guard is not creating the parasite resistance. We need to rotate with the safeguard to kill any resistant ivermectin bugs. The slate is then clean to go back to using the ivermectin.

I didn't realize that parasites are already showing resistance to permethrins. That's scary. I intend to bring it into the schedule during the warmer weather and keep the Carbaryl for winter. I'm going to look more into the sulfur idea.
Thank you for that information Lady McM.

Good to hear your experiences with cattle. (My daddy was an old time cowboy and rancher).

You'd likely be interested in this report I stumbled upon showing elemental sulfur in feed to be effective mite control. (As permethrin and carabyl both are showing 88% resistance now, more in some population :/

Hope your headache is better soon.

Link:
http://extension.psu.edu/animals/po...entations/2012/egg-layer-program/mite-control

 

[Sipplchicks]

I am not sure I can get permethrin here -- I am in Canada. The feed stores don't have it. I'll check Home Depot. I did use some roll-on pyrethrin all over their fluffy bits as that was the only place I saw mites (around their vents and bellies etc). The fogger definitely worked -- I looked in the smaller (wooden) coop and only saw a few mites on the floor. I fogged it and when I went back, there were THOUSANDS of dead ones all over the floor. I couldn't believe it! The big coop (that I first saw the problem in) is metal, and only the floor and roosts are wood, and I think I removed most of those mites by just shovelling the old shavings out. I didn't see near as many dead ones when I fogged it.

I am not sure but I think that perethrin is what they use to kill head lice in school age children so you might check with a pharmacy

 

[Sipplchicks]

I am not sure I can get permethrin here -- I am in Canada. The feed stores don't have it. I'll check Home Depot. I did use some roll-on pyrethrin all over their fluffy bits as that was the only place I saw mites (around their vents and bellies etc). The fogger definitely worked -- I looked in the smaller (wooden) coop and only saw a few mites on the floor. I fogged it and when I went back, there were THOUSANDS of dead ones all over the floor. I couldn't believe it! The big coop (that I first saw the problem in) is metal, and only the floor and roosts are wood, and I think I removed most of those mites by just shovelling the old shavings out. I didn't see near as many dead ones when I fogged it.

If you can't buy perethr in Canada you could buy it on line from here in the states

 

[Bogtown Chick]

I've heard that Ivermectin is not getting the job done for worms. I rotate Safegaurd and Valbazen on my birds each summer as they get worm loads I'm sure. (I had a bird with blackhead once) So I know they get 'em. We're pretty low and alot of grazing on wet ground here. I will say the Ivermectin still works fabulously on the Northern Fowl Mite up here.

We have Wild Turkeys come in once in a while. And those guys are lousey and I'm sure carriers of the NFM as well. And the chickens are territorial. Running them off. LOL. Kind of comical to watch but I cringe when I see it....because I know they are buggy.

 

[Wickedchicken6]

Good to hear your experiences with cattle. (My daddy was an old time cowboy and rancher).

You'd likely be interested in this report I stumbled upon showing elemental sulfur in feed to be effective mite control. (As permethrin and carabyl both are showing 88% resistance now, more in some population :/

Hope your headache is better soon.

Link:
http://extension.psu.edu/animals/po...entations/2012/egg-layer-program/mite-control

Thank you so much for the link, and the well wishes with my headache.
My headache is gone today...I got those allergies under control.

You're correct...I'm very interested in your link. It's very informative with great pictures (for those who may not have seen northern fowl mites) or the eggs. The study with the sulfur is interesting. With that kind of resistance to some of the miticides, the next 20+ years are going to be interesting.

So far I haven't seen resistance...but it's only been a couple of years. The extended freezing temps helps a lot with parasites, both internal and external. I've seen some of the highest values of mite infestation on some of the birds...cut down to a dozen birds with an infestation value of 2-3 at last treatment. I haven't seen a mite since then.