Regarding the Horses in our lives...

[casportpony]

Black.... almost unbleachable too. The only time she browns a bit is just before shedding time. Brown is technically not allowed in the breed in the US.... though it does happen. Bay and Sorrel are usually the colors. Often times the breeder sells them off as Grade Percherons and no registry... because they dont want anyone to know a prize mare or stallion produced non SOP .... Though they may be registered. The only desirable colors are Black or Grey which turns white.

Now Shires and Clydesdales come in ALL colors.... But they usually have some chrome and lots of feather so much so the farrier will put panty hose on them in order to Hot shoe. They even make a leather bell to cover the feathers to keep them clean....

Jealous... I've owned many horses, but only ever had one true black.

-Kathy

 

[perchie.girl]

Quote:

Now Shires and Clydesdales come in ALL colors.... But they usually have some chrome and lots of feather so much so the farrier will put panty hose on them in order to Hot shoe. They even make a leather bell to cover the feathers to keep them clean....

Jealous... I've owned many horses, but only ever had one true black.

-Kathy

I was surprised to find out there are two types of black horses. and it goes to genes again..... One is black that has some brown fade.... I have seen even black Percherons be considered a Black Bay.... which Katee would be considered.... but she doesnt fade very much. Surprisingly she fades more down by the coast than up at my house where its considerably hotter. the only thing I have figured out is There its dry and sweat dries almost immediately..... Down by the coast that same 90 degree day is much more humid so the sweat works itts way out the hairs and dries there.

Then there is True black they have a bluish sheet to their hair The only true true true black I ahve ever seen Was a Paint stallion years ago.

The deal is Katee and other horses like her were born grey. Gray babies turn black... IF they are born black they will begin to turn grey by the time they are weaned or at least by the time they are Two. But true blue black horses are born black and stay black... I believe its homozygus too.... Kind of rare too.

Now i am remembering an online discussion I had with a Percheron breeder..... So I may have my "facts" askew....

Katee is just about finishing growing her winter coat and I am going up there in the next few days So I will try to get a picture or two.

I had a woman ask me once how I kept Katee so black.... what kinds of supplements I use. Black oil sunflower seeds are good but I dont feed them. BTW they are a great source for oil for horses and protien and they dont make them hot. Good for all coats and feet.

I just told her good quality food and good grooming.... and no I dont wash my horses... she wanted to know what kind of shampoo i used. I do bathe occasionally but only when she gets yukky for some reason. Last place I boarded had Nasty stalls in winter.... one of the reasons I was glad to get out of there.

deb

 

[Bunnylady]

Quote: The deal is Katee and other horses like her were born grey. Gray babies turn black... IF they are born black they will begin to turn grey by the time they are weaned or at least by the time they are Two.
The way I've heard this explained is that foal colors are often muted as a sort of camouflage. So a bay foal may be almost as light as a buckskin, or a palomino will be born cream-colored. As they shed out their foal coat, their true color comes in, and the foal that was steel-gray at birth, turns black. I've even seen what seemed to be a bright chestnut at birth turn into a dark brown.

For a horse that has the graying gene, it is like the cells responsible for pigment production are on overdrive. Foals are born with hair that is absolutely packed with pigment, so a genetic black is born black as ink, a bay is a deep, dark bay at birth, etc. The pigment producing cells burn themselves out very early, and the horse begins to produce colorless (white) hairs; the muzzle and the area around the eyes being some of the first places they show up. The graying gene is dominant; I have heard that horse that have two copies tend to gray out faster than those with only one, but that may just be hearsay. Some horses turn gray very quickly, others show some dappling for many years before becoming all white or turning into a "fleabitten gray" with reddish freckles scattered on an otherwise white coat. Curiously, if the skin of a gray (white) horse gets injured, as the hair grows back into the injured area, the hair may be colored. I once knew a fleabitten gray that had so many black marks on him, he almost looked like an Appaloosa (he'd had a rough life).

 

[perchie.girl]

Ooo I like this discussion... @Bunnylady I never thought of foal color bieng a camoflage strategy.... My foal Marc was buckskin when he was born but turned a sandy bay when he started shedding. He was like a chocolate sunday...

I have seen the black marks on white horsess and figured those were old scars.... But never put genetics spin to it... Very interesting.

I just quickly looked up a Wikipedia article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_(horse)


This picture is what I know about black VS Black bay.. or just a very very very dark brown



Black horse (top) with sun bleached mane compared against dark bay or seal brown horse (bottom) with reddish hairs around the eye.

Katees mane never bleaches out... but her tail does down at the bottom from Urine splatter... when i boarded I trimmed six inches off every year to keep her from stepping on it when she backed up... After I found a HUGE full length bundle of hair in the corral.

I need to get some cowboy magic into it or it will be one giant Rastafarian Wind knot....

Even on good days it takes about two hours to comb it all out.... I spent years wishing for a horse with lots and lots of mane and tail.... Be careful what you wish for.....

deb

 

[casportpony]

Here's a link about coat colors:
https://www.animalgenetics.us/Equine/Coat_Color/Index.asp

-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

Another:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Horse-of-a-Different-Color-Genetics

-Kathy

 

[perchie.girl]

@casportpony

Those are awesome color sites.... Way over my head these days....

Here are some colors that have a different genetic spin.....

Brindle
http://www.justabrindlehorse.com/

Brindle horses

Some Brindles are the result of Chimeraism.... Twins that decided to go back and make one animal...

There are also examples of Melanism in horses but the only ones you can really identify through pictures are zebras...

Melanism google search


deb

 

[Peaches Lee]

Thank you for the complement. When she was under ten and fit she was around 1500 pounds. And her Canadian bloodlines give her more feather than many Percherons... Plus she doesn't have a docked tail... one of my requirements when I went looking. I have a funny story about that for later.

You know I took one of the stable owners for a drive once.... she was a reining and cutting horse person.... and had never been in a cart or carriage..... At the time I had a Sears and Roebuck cart. And I had trained my horse Marc in it.... From the time he was a long One year old.... so he kind of grew into the cart... I didnt realize it wasnt big enough for him by a smidge. He was used to it though.

So when I offered to give her a ride she was kind of hesitant... Here she was this cutting horse person who rode her stallion all the time sitting with me in this weenie little cart and her knuckles were white as she gripped the side of the seat.... it took her two times around the arena before she let her breath out.... but she never let go of the seat. Marc was a good boy... And she really complimented him.... but I could never coax her into the cart again.... Its that whole long distance communication thing and being sooo close to the "dangerous end" in a cart.

So What kind of horse do you have and what kind of riding do you do?

deb

LOL! That lady sounds like me. Driving isn't really my thing because you have to watch the horse, and I'm more of a feel the horse, so riding suits me much better haha! I have a Thoroughbred mare and co own some Andalusians with my mother, who is a very small breeder. I'm a dressage rider but would like to add some Friesians to the mix here and would love to have them drive (that's my mom's job though LOL). Great thread, thoroughly enjoying!

 

[perchie.girl]

@Peaches Lee

Hi... I had an internet friend a few years ago and she was breeding Spanish Normans... Gosh I hadnt thought about her in years. Percherons crossed with Andalusians.... She was the one with the Percheron mares and she was doing AI with a very nice stallion. The whole idea was to recreate a breed along with creating a Lovely sport horse... Gosh she must have had six Percherons.... and she did all her own foot trimming.


Naw driving is a good tool and definately not for everyone... The communication is visual more than tactile. But you can do many of the same things in harness you can do in the saddle. Not that I ever went that far in dressage but I have seen others.

I love Friesians... and used to drool over their team harness and when they were "Put to" a carriage... awesome combo.

This is A pair of Friesians in harness....

http://www.smuckersharness.com/pg17.html



Smuckers is a premier harness maker... The father retired a few years back and it looks like the son has "taken up the reins"

The harness is a Long tug Hame style with collars... The wagon is actually called a roof seat brake. a Park wagon that was used for parties and picnics and sight seeing.... The Pair harness runs about 6 grand and the wagon about the same... and the collars for the horses will run about three hundred or so each.

Beleive me you feel what they are doing and can see if they are falling in at the shoulder. Technically to be in a good position to drive you need to see the back of your horse. I love the way this driver is above and the lines drop toward the shoulder and to the mouth,. Almost like a straight line. Not unlike riding.

The picture of me driving I hate. Because I have to lift my hands up to be almost in the right position. My car fits her but doesnt put me in the proper position for pleasure driving. When I redesign the cart I will be lifting the seat up a bit higher.... much more like a Dog cart...


These have a seat facing forard and a seat facing backwards so you can pack four people on board. IN under the seats is a place to put the hunting dogs.... Often times they would drive one horse hitched to the cart with another in front for a tandom hitch... then there is the option of leading a horse behind.... And of course you need a groom to help with the horses and cart when you get ready to go hunting.

I dont have a source for the hardware on this cart... Dennet Springs (one on each side over the wheels one across the back to balance the cart sway... so I will probably redo my cart to be more like this



Soo many Carts, Carriages, Buggies, Buckboards.... to consider.... Then just about all have Sleigh conversions but I wouldn't know anything about that... Many many different harnesses too. Here in the US they are made a certain way in Europe .... a whole other set of parts and functions...

deb

 

[perchie.girl]

some pictures of Spanish Normans

Spanish Normans

deb