Regarding the Horses in our lives...

[perchie.girl]

Perchie, cool story. This woman intends to do all the training. It looks like they've taken 1/2 of the available pastures and moved those horses into refenced pastures on the other side.

crossing my fingers that the owner realizes that your horses need to be fed more.... If your grass is on sand Might start feeding supplements for sand ingestion

deb

 

[Bunnylady]

Well, you know how it is - some folks won't let a little thing like reality stand in the way of a dream . . . .

You've seen my posts about the cart that my husband built for my minis to pull; well, here it is:

It's 4 1/2 feet high at the back, the seat is 4 feet wide; with the wheels, it is 5 feet wide. It weighs about 150 pounds. When it was first built, the wheels were attached behind the seat on a piece of spring steel. The problem with that, of course, is that it put a "tongue weight" on the shafts of about 30 lbs when empty, with an added 30 or so pounds per person on the seat. They moved the wheels under the cart, which reduced the empty "tongue weight" to about 15 - 20 lbs, but now, if someone sits on the seat, it tries to go over backwards.

This is the cart compared to Blondie, the 35" mini that my husband at first thought would pull it. She's a little bit uphill from it - I think it is obvious that the cart is too big for her. (That's my Quarter Horse Latte [aka "Big Blonde"] photobombing)


This is the cart compared to Syd. That's also as close as I could get Syd to it; I think one or the other of us would have gotten hurt if I had tried to get her between the shafts. Obviously, a lot of work to do on her yet . . . .


Thoughts?

 

[perchie.girl]

Well, you know how it is - some folks won't let a little thing like reality stand in the way of a dream . . . .

You've seen my posts about the cart that my husband built for my minis to pull; well, here it is:

It's 4 1/2 feet high at the back, the seat is 4 feet wide; with the wheels, it is 5 feet wide. It weighs about 150 pounds. When it was first built, the wheels were attached behind the seat on a piece of spring steel. The problem with that, of course, is that it put a "tongue weight" on the shafts of about 30 lbs when empty, with an added 30 or so pounds per person on the seat. They moved the wheels under the cart, which reduced the empty "tongue weight" to about 15 - 20 lbs, but now, if someone sits on the seat, it tries to go over backwards.

This is the cart compared to Blondie, the 35" mini that my husband at first thought would pull it. She's a little bit uphill from it - I think it is obvious that the cart is too big for her. (That's my Quarter Horse Latte [aka "Big Blonde"] photobombing)


This is the cart compared to Syd. That's also as close as I could get Syd to it; I think one or the other of us would have gotten hurt if I had tried to get her between the shafts. Obviously, a lot of work to do on her yet . . . .


Thoughts?

Oh my he did goood....

Ideally the seat should have the center of balance directly over the center of the wheels. This makes the persons weight neutral to the shafts. Width of cart for people is perfect... even the width for the horse is fine as long as the shafts are close to the body and dont rattle from side to side. To adjust the height of the cart you can move the wheels and the axel above the floor of the basket... (where you put your feet) The potential for height adjustment would only be limited by how close to the ground the basket becomes.

If your terrain isnt hilly or dippy you should be good with about six inches.... for training puposes in an arena where its flat... awesome.

The length of the cart will only become an issue if the harness will not reach the single tree. Australians drive something called a jinker With very very very long shafts. This is what they use for trail or distance driving (100 miles or more) Usually a straight shafted cart. the length to the single tree can be accommodated with a trace lengthen-er... easy to make.

Your husband built what is called an easy entry which has a clear space in front of the wheels. Makes it easy to get in and out of. They are inherantly limited for balance and off road use though. because of that basket

If you can get some pictures of the shafts and basket from the front showing the shafts resting on the ground. this will give me an idea of any adjustments you may need to do.

I have several designs for carts that I have started.... none are shareable because they are in AutoCad... But Yours is definately tweakable....

deb

 

[perchie.girl]

to help desensitize a horse to a cart I have suggest people follow us around the ranch while I was driving... One extreeemly spooky Warmblood Snorted rattle snakess out her nose every time she saw us... i made the suggestion and within one lap she was up sniffing it and riding along side... We never trapped her nor pushed her beyond her comfort level.. AFter that it was all Ho hum that again... LOL.

Silly Warmbloods dont they know they originally were bred to pull Coaches....

deb

 

[Bunnylady]

The axle is still attached with the spring steel; it is now mounted near the front of the basket. I had thought to put the axle above the floor, too, but the spring would make it a bit awkward and potentially foot-pinchy.

For me,the seat feels too high - a bit like sitting on a barstool. Hubby insists that it's the same height as one of the dining room chairs, but I feel like I have to perch on the front of the seat and brace myself (but not too far back, like I said,it wants to go over backwards).

 

[perchie.girl]

The axle is still attached with the spring steel; it is now mounted near the front of the basket. I had thought to put the axle above the floor, too, but the spring would make it a bit awkward and potentially foot-pinchy.

For me,the seat feels too high - a bit like sitting on a barstool. Hubby insists that it's the same height as one of the dining room chairs, but I feel like I have to perch on the front of the seat and brace myself (but not too far back, like I said,it wants to go over backwards).

thats because its not over the wheels... Your balance should be a teeny bit forward.... weight on the shafts for a pony like that can be as much as twenty five pounds...

Hes able to weld and cut steel he should be able to figure it out. some people mount seats on brackets with pins in them so you can move the seat forward or back depending on the balance needed. This only changes with different horse heights. Same cart can work for a taller horse move the seat forward to compensate.

deb

 

[Bunnylady]

Hubby isn't a welder, he did the woodworking and made the seat. He got a guy that has done some metalworking for him in the past to build the frame. Unfortunately, neither of them really knew what they were doing; he'd looked at some pictures of easy -entry carts for inspiration, but didn't even know there's such a thing as a singletree.

 

[perchie.girl]

Hubby isn't a welder, he did the woodworking and made the seat. He got a guy that has done some metalworking for him in the past to build the frame. Unfortunately, neither of them really knew what they were doing; he'd looked at some pictures of easy -entry carts for inspiration, but didn't even know there's such a thing as a singletree.

Oh... They did good .... but unless the welder can re work it... it would be cheaper to buy one for a mini...

I have seen them ranging in price from 200 to about 500 in various quality...

deb

 

[Bunnylady]

I'm sure the welder would be willing to do whatever tweaking we asked for; the question, of course, is the cost. What really annoyed me was that somehow, not being enamored with it as originally created was seen as me being overly picky? When Hubby called the welder a couple of days after giving it to me, the welder's first words were, "*sigh* What didn't she like?" (Oh, I'm sorry, I know I should be ecstatic over this thing that is conceptually like a large backwards wheelbarrow, and which with the intended 2 riders will put almost 100 lbs of pressure on the back of a 250 lb pony, which also has no place to attach traces because you don't know they exist!) It was a very thoughtful gift, and it took a lot of effort, and I appreciate all of that; I just wish they had done a little bit more research before committing to a design, and didn't act like I'm a hard-to-please ingrate for wanting things changed.

Incidentally,just buying a cart actually sized to the animal was my thought all along . . . . and I've also wondered about getting some bigger wheels and seeing whether I could train one of my 14-or-so-hand QH's to pull this cart.

 

[perchie.girl]

I'm sure the welder would be willing to do whatever tweaking we asked for; the question, of course, is the cost. What really annoyed me was that somehow, not being enamored with it as originally created was seen as me being overly picky? When Hubby called the welder a couple of days after giving it to me, the welder's first words were, "*sigh* What didn't she like?" (Oh, I'm sorry, I know I should be ecstatic over this thing that is conceptually like a large backwards wheelbarrow, and which with the intended 2 riders will put almost 100 lbs of pressure on the back of a 400 lb pony, which also has no place to attach traces because you don't know they exist!) It was a very thoughtful gift, and it took a lot of effort, and I appreciate all of that; I just wish they had done a little bit more research before committing to a design, and didn't act like I'm a hard-to-please ingrate for wanting things changed.

sigh.... Been there all my life.... You and I know that horse equipment didnt just "happen" because it looked like a good idea... Look how long it took to develop the first saddle.... And How many iterations it went through to get here as it looks today...

For instance the McClellan Saaddl was a fine piece of innovation designed to fit a WIde Variety of horses and riders.... Yet today if you took one of those saddles and plunked it on a modern horse... The tree would be way too narrow.... and heaven forbid trying to just put anyone in the seat of it... Humans have changed even... just in the last 50 years not to mention the last 100 or 200 years.

Carts and harness are no less different... Maybe even older in design in many cases. But yet more forgiving.... You can make a simple harness out of a circingle and two breast collars... One for pulling and one for stopping.and if you dont have a crircingle you can use either a western or english saddle... Blinders are a Coaching invention.... To keep all the horses from seeing the use of the whip or lash and anticipating.... keeps the team cohesive.

The Crupper was and is simply a device to help anchor the harness from sliding side to side. there are other ways to do it though. Harness is supposed to fit like pajamas.... no tight cinching on anything....

for your ponies a nice straight shaft that goes from the pony to the axel would be an excellent base. No you can use a bit larger diameter wheel. which is easy to pull and would put the shafts nearly as high as you need for the pony... Shafts should eiether be nearly level or have a gentle rise up toward the stirrups... or shaft loops.

The bend in the shafts would be to accomodate the width of the horse and the curve of the body.... Narrower near the shoulders and attach point.... then a gentle curve away from the body so the horse can engage his hip in a turn... A cross piece is affixed to the shafts to keep them spaced properly that is set near the basket and traditionally that is where the single tree is attached. The single tree can go either on top or underneath... it should be free to complete an arc generous enough to allow total freedom in the horses shoulders. About six to eight inches is all that is necessary for a very large horse.

So that takes care of shafts and attachments to the horse.... and the concept of attaching the wheels . You can raise and lower the shafts by putting blocks under them between them and the axel... Wood is the best choice for this with home construction.

The seat and springs then can be attached anywhere you like... Springs while they make the ride more comfortable for the driver can be eliminated because in your case you wont be going at great speed over bumpy ground.... But they can be simply coil springs mounted under the seat... The seat front being attached to a hinge .... So you can flip the seat all the way up and over for storage.

My Big draft show cart has two leaf springs and they are ALL that attach Shafts Seat and Basket to the wheels. and they are bolted on. with U brackets. I built this from a Kit that I bought from New Hampshire... it came to me on two pallets as bundles of pre cut shaped wood. I only needed to sand and varnish the wood and to clean the steel and paint it. I took the steel parts to a dune buggy paint shop and told them what they were.... They took the necessary steps of stripping off manufacturing oils cleaning the surfaces and then powder coating them a nice shiny black... I got a good deal because he was fascinated about what they were for.

here is my Gentlemans Road Cart... this is NOT suitable for anything but horse shows and going down a well graded flat not rutted road... I have plans to deconstruct it for a more roebust use later...



Ok this is a draft horse she is seventeen hands those wheels are 52 inches in diameter.... just for scale.. I am 5'7 and 300+- pounds in the photo the harness is a Cheeeeep Gig harness I bought off Ebay. I bought the collar from Smuckers and it cost a good 120 dollars. Collars are very important to fit properly and be made properly or you can ruin your horses shoulders. Half the cost of the harness above.

I made design changes to accomodate pulling a two wheeled vehicle with a collar. I slung the single tree from the axel with a v Shaped strap. They are called Swingle Trees. The idea is collars are designed for pulling weight and require an angle from the shoulder to the point of attachment to make them comfortable... Hitching straight in line with the shafts is for breast collars not neck collars. though people do it all the time for "looks". I got a lot of draft show people asking me why or telling me I had something hanging....

As it prooved just after this picture she reared and leaped off the ground in a Capriole and almost took the cart off the ground... If she had done that the in a standard rig... It could have caused all sorts of disaster.

After carefull analysis I have determined this cart was too big for my girl... So when I reconstruct... I will be going with smaller diameter wheels to lower the whole cart by about six inches in the back. Giving the shafts a slight angle UP toward the shaft loops. Thats the only mechanical change I will be making with regards to my horses needs. Then I will be adding steel to provide shaft attachment and to allow for me to get in without climbing up and over the wheels.... This is why its a Gentlemans Road cart...

here is another picture showing the setup more clearly


That basket is attached only to the shafts the whole assembly floats on top of two leaf spings those springs are attached to the wheels with U bolts on bottom and with curved risers on top (one side is curved to rest on the springs one side is straight to support the flat side of the shafts... Again attached with a clamping arrangement similar to U bolts but due to the depth they are threaded rods with bar straps on each end. (another design change I am making

The cart is all hickory so actually making the changes will be a simple process. BUT deciding on What to change and how... will take careful consideration.

I will get outside sometime today to show you the cart as it looks now.... Its not so pretty any more after three years out in the sun. I havent hitched to it since she trampled me and pulled it over the top of me in 2005.

deb