request from ALBC

[Rock N' Faverolles]

I am begining to think that most people consider breeds rare just because they can't find them in the city in which they live. If they subscribe to Poultry Press or ever go to APA/ABA sanctioned shows they would begin to see what is rare.

Something to think about: What is more rare - a breed that has 20 breeders who each have only a trio to breed from, or a breed that has only five breeders but each breeder has 50 birds to breed from?

David

 

[Chris09]

Rock N' Faverolles :

I am begining to think that most people consider breeds rare just because they can't find them in the city in which they live. If they subscribe to Poultry Press or ever go to APA/ABA sanctioned shows they would begin to see what is rare.

Something to think about: What is more rare - a breed that has 20 breeders who each have only a trio to breed from, or a breed that has only five breeders but each breeder has 50 birds to breed from?

David

A breed that has 20 breeders who each have only a trio to breed from.

I know you know David but for those that don't get the question, you always look at the amount of birds and not the amount of breeders.

This is a quote from Robert Blosl

Today the Rhode Island Red large fowl with the single comb is a very rare breed of poultry. Maybe during the months of January and February you might be able to count 200 adult birds and during the summer months maybe there will be a thousand in the USA. That is very rare.
The Rose Comb Rhode Island Red which is the same bird for type and color as the Singe Comb may have only about 50 during the winter months. They are not all gone but so scarce.

(this would be Non-hatchery type birds. He is talking about Reds that meet the standard)

Now that is getting rare...

Chris​

 

[Rock N' Faverolles]

Overall that's right, but I'm not sure I agree. Let me explain. With only five breeders if something happened like illness, or a fire, or flood, etc then you're out that much, but with 20 breeders, if five breeders lost everything they had, they still have someone to go back on to get another start. Plus I could easily hatch 150 chicks out of a trio of birds, but the breeder that has 50 may only hatch 75 or less, just enough to replentish his flock and keep young birds. Do you see where I'm coming from?

Personally I would like to see 50 breeders of each breed AND color with at minimum 50 birds in their flocks, then we wouldn't have to be having this discussion.

David

 

[HorseFeatherz NV]

Quote:
(this would be Non-hatchery type birds. He is talking about Reds that meet the standard)

Now that is getting rare...

Chris

Oh my............I never realized this, shocking. (I do realize that hatchery RIR are a dime a dozen) Those number are just shocking 200 single? 50 rose?

So these number would reflect the RIR breeders who are active in the RIR club and or showing (breeding for APA standard), not say HorseFeatherz NV who maybe bought a trio from a breeder and has them in her backyard - is not in the club and is not showning? (not that I do/have, just using myself as an example).

 

[Illia]

Uhh. . . I really hope they're looking for people with NON hatchery Light Brahmas.

 

[drumstick diva]

oooh too many numbers, too much math, I feel faint....

 

[blackred]

Rock N' Faverolles :

Overall that's right, but I'm not sure I agree. Let me explain. With only five breeders if something happened like illness, or a fire, or flood, etc then you're out that much, but with 20 breeders, if five breeders lost everything they had, they still have someone to go back on to get another start. Plus I could easily hatch 150 chicks out of a trio of birds, but the breeder that has 50 may only hatch 75 or less, just enough to replentish his flock and keep young birds. Do you see where I'm coming from?

Personally I would like to see 50 breeders of each breed AND color with at minimum 50 birds in their flocks, then we wouldn't have to be having this discussion.

David

Plus the more breeders that have the breed the more diverse the genetic pool​

 

[rancher hicks]

Quote:
When I started with chickens, I took a liking to the Delaware breed. Then as I began to look for Delawares I was made aware that the "hatcheries" were selling Delaware/Columbian Rock crosses. When I contacted "Breeders" they also had hatchery stock. So I was no farther ahead. A count of breeders in this years ALBC listing shows approx 23 who sell birds. This is out of approx. 86 listed in the book. That means that of the 50 states the average is less than 2 breeders per state. I have contacted some, and they no longer breed Delawares. So it may in fact be less than that.

The listing for Brahmas' is 21 breeders. Lets keep in mind these are serious breeders, not just hobbiests'. These breeders only cover 14 states. Page 16 of the book shows only 4 breeders who sell Brahmas.

Please remember this is for a Census of the breed and they want to know where you got your birds. I expect they are looking for serious breeders who keep accurate records.

Just because you see birds at a show does not mean its a good representation of the breed, as I learned at this years NYS Fair. There were four Dels, 2 hens and 2 roos and they were a mess to put it mildly. As I began to talk to judges and showers I've learned, some of these birds at the show would be judged "not worthy". Also I've been to two non Fair shows and saw not one Delaware or a Brahma.

I have a small flock of Delawares but that does not make me a serious breeder IMO, even though I hatch chicks and sell them.

I plan to go to this years ALBC convention next month and hope to rub shoulders with the elite of the Breed preservationists, and not say anything to show how green I am. Perhaps I should just hang a sign around my neck that says I like Delawares and put duct tape over my mouth.

If you are not a member of the ALBC you should join just for the education factor alone. If you can't afford to be a member then perhaps you can share a membership just to get the news letter and share it with friends.

I have better than this running around my yard. Who knows maybe next year I kick butt at the Fair.

Wishing all the best
Rancher

 

[Illia]

Quote:
When I started with chickens, I took a liking to the Delaware breed. Then as I began to look for Delawares I was made aware that the "hatcheries" were selling Delaware/Columbian Rock crosses. When I contacted "Breeders" they also had hatchery stock. So I was no farther ahead. A count of breeders in this years ALBC listing shows approx 23 who sell birds. This is out of approx. 86 listed in the book. That means that of the 50 states the average is less than 2 breeders per state. I have contacted some, and they no longer breed Delawares. So it may in fact be less than that.

The listing for Brahmas' is 21 breeders. Lets keep in mind these are serious breeders, not just hobbiests'. These breeders only cover 14 states. Page 16 of the book shows only 4 breeders who sell Brahmas.

Please remember this is for a Census of the breed and they want to know where you got your birds. I expect they are looking for serious breeders who keep accurate records.

Just because you see birds at a show does not mean its a good representation of the breed, as I learned at this years NYS Fair. There were four Dels, 2 hens and 2 roos and they were a mess to put it mildly. As I began to talk to judges and showers I've learned, some of these birds at the show would be judged "not worthy". Also I've been to two non Fair shows and saw not one Delaware or a Brahma.

I have a small flock of Delawares but that does not make me a serious breeder IMO, even though I hatch chicks and sell them.

I plan to go to this years ALBC convention next month and hope to rub shoulders with the elite of the Breed preservationists, and not say anything to show how green I am. Perhaps I should just hang a sign around my neck that says I like Delawares and put duct tape over my mouth.

If you are not a member of the ALBC you should join just for the education factor alone. If you can't afford to be a member then perhaps you can share a membership just to get the news letter and share it with friends.

I have better than this running around my yard. Who knows maybe next year I kick butt at the Fair.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/23908_state_fair_pics_013.jpg https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/23908_state_fair_pics_014.jpg

Wishing all the best
Rancher

Those are some UGLY birds!

I do agree though - And that is part of my point. . . I really hope they're counting serious breeders, because yes, there are a LOT of people (and I mean a lot!!) who just buy from a hatchery, breed, and call themselves serious and show quality.