Resource guarding keeps derailing my flocks. Can't crack the code!

[Fluffy_Butt_Hutt]

The PVC method prevents a chicken from guarding the food because they have to stick their full head in. Other methods is estimating how much food will be eaten that day and making several visible piles away from each other so everyone can eat. Lower in the pecking order go to the farthest ones from the ones high in the pecking order. Start with 1 cup per 3 birds and increase it if they finish it within two hours.

 

[Altairsky]

That's really unfortunate. Cochins are usually calm birds. Sadly I have no idea why they behave like that. Your setup sounds great.

 

[kattabelly]

(First off, because text can be difficult to interpret with tone of voice etc. I just want to make it clear that I'm not trying to be mean or critical or dismissive here. This is just an observation/opinion and I might be completely wrong. I mean this kindly and I wasn't even going to say anything before you started a thread specifically about this.)

When you talk about resource guarding, are any of them actually going to bed with empty crops or doing the kind of watery green poo that suggests they haven't eaten? Or getting in fights that end in actual injuries, or so scared that they hide all the time or seem highly agitated in another bird's presence (not just moving out of their way or seeming wary of them)?

Asking because I've seen a couple of videos that you posted to demonstrate this behaviour - one might have been about bullying more generally, I don't remember for sure - and I didn't see the problem in either of them. Not even something that I'd think was an issue but minor enough to do nothing for a while and hope they'd resolve it themselves.

Chickens could've invented the idea of FOMO. They'll always want the food that's in another chicken's beak, rather than the identical stuff right in front of them. They get up in each other's space and chase and peck and snatch and screech and follow other birds and avoid other birds and that's usually all completely normal, healthy behaviour. If you aren't very used to chickens I can see how it might seem worrying though, especially to someone who cares as much about their birds as you clearly do and wants them to be happy.

Like I say, could well be I've missed something or the videos weren't very representative of the actual problem or I'm just way off base here. Just a thought.

 

[thecatumbrella]

When you talk about resource guarding, are any of them actually going to bed with empty crops or doing the kind of watery green poo that suggests they haven't eaten? Or getting in fights that end in actual injuries, or so scared that they hide all the time or seem highly agitated in another bird's presence (not just moving out of their way or seeming wary of them)?

No, everyone's getting at least some food each day. We did reach a point with two birds where the lower was constantly agitated and isolating herself. That aggressor was rehomed (as she was also being TRULY bullied, herself). The current dynamic is nowhere near that. I'm just getting a bit fed up that some can't seem to adapt.

Asking because I've seen a couple of videos that you posted to demonstrate this behaviour - one might have been about bullying more generally, I don't remember for sure - and I didn't see the problem in either of them. Not even something that I'd think was an issue but minor enough to do nothing for a while and hope they'd resolve it themselves.

Depending on when I posted the videos, you're correct in that I was either providing a weak example, or was not properly schooled yet on what flock dynamics look like. I feel like I've gotten a good handle on it within the last month or two. Of course, I never seem to take a video once things reach critical mass.

The resource guarding isn't so much the issue. It's more the recipients response to that. Rather than going to eat at another feeder, they'll build up frustration and then overreact towards the bird below them. It's normal chicken stuff, but it becomes a problem when they bring it to the coop at night (something that's my fault) and evict their flockmates.

No offense taken, by the way. I want people to be honest with me.

 

[thecatumbrella]

Actually, if anyone's read my Sphere of Influence article (shameless plug, feel free to leave a 1 star review), Poppy guarding food/water from Hornet changed Hornet's SOI from a calming white to a flaming hot Cheeto red. Her BFF relationship with Clover changed overnight. She's no longer allowed within 2-feet of her, for any reason.

All pecking order, all annoying to watch. And once again, my coop is the weakest link. It would have been lovely to have birds that realize food is plentiful, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards for me. Hornet needs to act like she's auditioning for Survivor.

 

[kattabelly]

Of course, I never seem to take a video once things reach critical mass.

Another completely normal chicken behaviour there Of course they'll only do the thing you want to record when there isn't a camera pointed at them.

The resource guarding isn't so much the issue. It's more the recipients response to that. Rather than going to eat at another feeder, they'll build up frustration and then overreact towards the bird below them. It's normal chicken stuff, but it becomes a problem when they bring it to the coop at night (something that's my fault) and evict their flockmates.

Ok so am I right in thinking this is the main issue? Have you been able to see exactly what's happening to cause one to leave the coop at night, or are they refusing to even risk going in at all? I'm not sure what strategies you've already tried to deal with this but there are possible solutions, even with the coop you have now.

No offense taken, by the way. I want people to be honest with me.

I think I remember upsetting you a bit with a comment about adding run clutter before, so I'm trying to be less tactless and more constructive on here

 

[thecatumbrella]

Ok so am I right in thinking this is the main issue? Have you been able to see exactly what's happening to cause one to leave the coop at night, or are they refusing to even risk going in at all?

Yes, we have a camera. She's getting feathers pulled out of her back. She'll then sit outside and scream until we rescue her. My basement "coop" is much more spacious, so everyone's spending the night down there without issue. The outdoor coop is stupidly small (24-inch x 36-inch in the roost area) with no vertical space to get away. I was hoping the tighter quarters would help them stay warmer overwinter, but that's obviously not going to happen.

I think I remember upsetting you a bit with a comment about adding run clutter before so I'm trying to be less tactless and more constructive on here

Oh, don't worry about it. I apologize if I seemed bristly. I'm normally pretty hard on myself and on what I can do better, and I think I was just having a moment where I needed to feel like the chickens were the problem more than my setup. I did take your advice in the end and added more stuff to the pen.

 

[Altairsky]

Are you allowed to keep a rooster? Roosters tend to end bullying between hens.

 

[kattabelly]

Yes, we have a camera. She's getting feathers pulled out of her back. She'll then sit outside and scream until we rescue her. My basement "coop" is much more spacious, so everyone's spending the night down there without issue. The outdoor coop is stupidly small (24-inch x 36-inch in the roost area) with no vertical space to get away. I was hoping the tighter quarters would help them stay warmer overwinter, but that's obviously not going to happen.

You have one of the Omlet coops that just have a floor with slats to kind of "roost" on, rather than an actual raised roost bar, right? Some people add vertical dividers along roosts when birds aren't getting along - I'm sure you could bodge something similar in your coop. I'd be tempted to try just shoving some cardboard in to make a wall from one side/back out to the centre, folded into as many layers as it needed to make it rigid enough to stay wedged between the floor and the ceiling. Or is it one with a divider and a separate nest area already?

Personally I'd also try just shutting them in once it was properly dark, ignoring any initial screaming and seeing if it settled down after a while or if there were still signs of feather picking happening in the dark (either on the chicken the next morning, or on camera if yours does night vision). Younger chickens or new additions will often learn to go and roost later on, once the others are starting to sleep and it's getting too dark to see enough to bother the latecomers. Providing a completely separate space to sleep might be another option if you wanted to try it, either with just a really basic "micro coop" box as a temporary fix now or with something more like a actual second coop if you did decide to try keeping chickens again in the future.

Doing a search for ways other people have dealt with feather picking more generally might give you some more ideas too.

Is the coop door open all night if it's in a secure run, or do you close the coop itself too?

 

[thecatumbrella]

Are you allowed to keep a rooster? Roosters tend to end bullying between hens.

We are allowed. One of my rehoming contacts has a similar setup (with a lot more birds), and she said the rooster makes all the difference. I was reluctant to shut them in an enclosure with an amorous male, but now realize I need to rethink that.