Results from First Year with Deep Litter Method

[colorfield]

Great info here. I am building a raised coop with a wood floor (not sure yet what to cover it with) and a fixed run that is partially covered. I've been planning to do the deep litter method in the run, but would love to do it in the coop as well. I like the idea of adding some soil, mulch, or compost to the shavings in the coop as it makes more sense to me to get the microorganisms working on the droppings rather than relying on something that I'd have to buy, like PDZ. Also, good to know about the DE. I'd been planning to use that for prevention of mites and so on, as I don't have a wood stove, but I really don't want to kill off the bugs who work in the litter/soil. I'll have to see if someone I know has a wood stove and would be willing to give me ashes and perhaps a charred log.

 

[Daisy8s]

I don't have any wood ash and I don't think you have to have it. My birds find spots in the yard to make into their own dust bath. At first I thought they'd like to use sand for their dust baths and I intentionally brought in several bags of nice, fine, sandbox sand. They ignored it.

What they really want is a place under a pine tree, or a spot in the lawn the dogs have just dug up. I'm amazed that they'll walk right past the dry sand and go find some damp soil to work and work at until they can roll around in it.

I've also noticed they like to choose different spots every few weeks for their dust bathes. Not sure why, but it's a predictable pattern for two years now.

But, I guess they know what they're doing as they've never had parasites when I check them over!

 

[pdirt]

Great post and comments here. Regarding using grass clippings...a couple questions. First, I have heard of chickens getting their crops stuck full from too many grass clippings, but it sounds like you have not had this problem? Secondly, the deep litter method is basically a compost pile your chickens walk and scratch upon. In my composting experience, I avoided putting grass clippings in our compost bin for two reasons, one was weeds, the other was dog poop. I don't think our compost would ever get hot enough to kill weed seeds or fully decompose dog poo. Or at least we never were sure and this was compost we would use in our vegetable garden. We do pick up our dog poo and try to keep it out of the grass clippings, but I know some of it does get mowed up. Is it particularly harmful to chickens if they had small amounts of dog poo in their litter?

 

[Homestead girl]

Deep Litter Usage Updated: DE was a huge mistake

In the spring of 2012 I wrote the original post to rave about the great compost I made in my chicken coop by employing the deep litter method. Now it's the spring of 2013, my second year with deep litter, and I'm giving an update on an important lesson I learned.

The DE Mistake
Last year, after the clean out I intentionally left a few inches of old bedding to keep the good organisms that facilitate composting. But then, a few weeks later I made a fatal mistake. I had purchased Diametaceous Earth (DE) because I heard so many others raving about it here on BYC. I added a thin layer of DE to the bedding--and within days began noticing a bad smell. My bedding wasn't composting any more. With some more research I realized I'd killed off the healthy organisms that had been composting the manure and kitchen scraps and bedding material.

The Result
By leaving the DE layer undisturbed and layering lots more dirt, leaves and grass I was able to cure the bad smell but this spring as I cleaned out my deep litter I encountered a very different result than I did the first time. First, all the bedding was much drier and had retained its original form--still grass and leaves. It did not compost down into soil in the bottom layer as had happened before. (No live earthworms this year!) Second, when I reached the DE layer at the bottom it smelled horribly of ammonia.

So, rather than my bedding becoming more like great compost the further down I dug, instead it became more dead and stinky.

Other Updates
I did make it nicely through the year with seven of the heavy-duty, over-sized black plastic trash bags stuffed full of either dried grass or dried leaves. I even have one bag leftover to use in the cleaned-out coop until we get to lawn-mowing weather.

I still love that my bedding system is absolutely free (offer to rake your neighbor's leaves if you don't have enough!); it requires minimal effort after the initial mowing/raking, drying, and bagging; and it creates great compost so long as you never, ever use DE.

The Cold Winter Benefit
There is one more benefit I witnessed this winter. I now have a great big Barred Rock rooster. When he jumps down from the 4 ft high perch I can see the soft bedding cushioning his landing. I know it's a softer bedding than sand could ever be. Plus, I saw steam rising from the bedding in January when a hen was scratching around. This was a particularly harsh winter and I loved knowing they had a soft, warm, 18-24 inch layer of insulation between them and the frozen ground.

I love learning from people who have been doing something awhile and are willing to share their mistakes. I hope learning from mine will benefit others.

I have a new coop and as you, I read the great articles about DE.. I put it all over my 24 x12 coop . I do not have a lot of pine shavings down as I have been cleaning the coop every two weeks.
Then I read several articles about Deep Litter, I also have a neighbor who is well up in his 70's and that is what he uses the Deep Litter , So my question is I put down at least 1/4 of the 40lb. bag of DE on the dirt floor . So how do I get it up and out of my coop before I put down 4 inches of pine shavings ? What would you recommend.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, before I make a big mess of things.

 

[pdirt]

I have a new coop and as you, I read the great articles about DE.. I put it all over my 24 x12 coop . I do not have a lot of pine shavings down as I have been cleaning the coop every two weeks.
Then I read several articles about Deep Litter, I also have a neighbor who is well up in his 70's and that is what he uses the Deep Litter , So my question is I put down at least 1/4 of the 40lb. bag of DE on the dirt floor . So how do I get it up and out of my coop before I put down 4 inches of pine shavings ? What would you recommend.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, before I make a big mess of things.

I realize you posted this over two weeks ago and if you haven't already done it, you probably already know what you need to do. You need to remove the DE, shoveling or whatever. Scoop out as much of the DE as you can get out, even if that means removing fresh bedding you have just put down. What to do with it I don't know, maybe dig a hole and bury it? I suppose leaving a little behind won't be the end of the world, but you surely don't want 10 lbs of the stuff left in there.

If you are going to do the deep litter thing, you might also want to inoculate it with EM (effective microorganisms). Not necessary, I imagine, but I want my DLM to work well! EM is a soil based probiotic...you ferment the mother culture with water and molasses, then use that, diluted, to spray your coop and runs on a weekly basis (except in cold weather). The DLM works best in a dirt floor coop and EM can help with that if you don't have a dirt floor. It will help the bedding and droppings to compost better. It provides more of the beneficial bacteria, which will compete/attack with the unwanted bacteria (including those that produce the ammonia smell).

 

[nellynelly]

any mold issue with the grass clippings?

 

[Homestead girl]

I put a huge bucket of grass clippings in every time we cut the grass. The girl's love it and I have not had any problem with it molding . It doesn't last long enough for it to mold. My girl's eat it , scratch it , lay in it.

 

[GuppyTJ]

Daisy8,

Great post, the original and the update, much appreciated. You described your coop and set up beautifully. However, I'm not clear on if you have a run and/or free range your chickens? In other words, do they spend full time in the coop that you described? I was just curious because I'm new to chickens and I wondered if your chickens have a run and/or free range. If wondered if yes, if they might not be as inclined to spend so much time scratching up the food scraps, littler and poo and essentially, making the deep littler method work as well.

I ask because my setup is that my coop is 14 by 10 housing currently 16 12 week old chicks. Half are roos so I'll end up with about 10 chickens So, when full grown, I'll have about 14 square foot per chicken. I have a dirt floor covered with chopped straw. The drainage is good, with just one wall with a little dampness. It has good ventilation too. Under the roost, I have just dirt (no straw there) and poo trays I lay down at night, which I clean daily and throwing the poo in the compost pile. I use a bucket and spatula and scrape any poo from other places inside the coop as well. I use a pitch fork and turn the straw over daily. As you can tell, I just don't like smells either and so I keep the coop clean but it is a bit of work every day (maybe an hour per day). In addition, my chickens free range all day and also have a really big 100 by 50 foot covered open barn overhang area to hang out in. As a result, they only spend maybe 1 or 2 hours in the coop during the daylight hours and the rest of the time, they spend outside or in the barn overhang area. I lock them safely in the coop at dusk and let them out at dawn. I live in Kentucky so we have fairly mild winters and I expect they'll spend more time in the coop during cold weather, but I don't think a lot more.

So, this is why I ask about the deep litter method as it relates to the amount of time the chickens spend in the coop. Do you think it will work well/as well in situations where the chickens spend very little time in the coop and you have a very low density of chickens in the coop? What are your thoughts?

Also, what do you see as the difference between chopped straw and grass clippings? I always understood they were essentially the same thing. I bush hog/mow my fields and manually rake up the straw/grass clippings and so have as much of it for free as I want. I'm doing this on a budget so free is good. Hay is different from straw/grass clippings, of course as it's hollow and has higher nutritional value which is why livestock eat it. But in your view, straw is one thing, grass clippings is something else. Do you think of straw as more course, maybe and grass clippings more fine smaller, perhaps?

Thanks much for the great info,
Guppy

 

[amenfarm]

Daisy8,

Great post, the original and the update, much appreciated. You described your coop and set up beautifully. However, I'm not clear on if you have a run and/or free range your chickens? In other words, do they spend full time in the coop that you described? I was just curious because I'm new to chickens and I wondered if your chickens have a run and/or free range. If wondered if yes, if they might not be as inclined to spend so much time scratching up the food scraps, littler and poo and essentially, making the deep littler method work as well.

I ask because my setup is that my coop is 14 by 10 housing currently 16 12 week old chicks. Half are roos so I'll end up with about 10 chickens So, when full grown, I'll have about 14 square foot per chicken. I have a dirt floor covered with chopped straw. The drainage is good, with just one wall with a little dampness. It has good ventilation too. Under the roost, I have just dirt (no straw there) and poo trays I lay down at night, which I clean daily and throwing the poo in the compost pile. I use a bucket and spatula and scrape any poo from other places inside the coop as well. I use a pitch fork and turn the straw over daily. As you can tell, I just don't like smells either and so I keep the coop clean but it is a bit of work every day (maybe an hour per day). In addition, my chickens free range all day and also have a really big 100 by 50 foot covered open barn overhang area to hang out in. As a result, they only spend maybe 1 or 2 hours in the coop during the daylight hours and the rest of the time, they spend outside or in the barn overhang area. I lock them safely in the coop at dusk and let them out at dawn. I live in Kentucky so we have fairly mild winters and I expect they'll spend more time in the coop during cold weather, but I don't think a lot more.

So, this is why I ask about the deep litter method as it relates to the amount of time the chickens spend in the coop. Do you think it will work well/as well in situations where the chickens spend very little time in the coop and you have a very low density of chickens in the coop? What are your thoughts?

Also, what do you see as the difference between chopped straw and grass clippings? I always understood they were essentially the same thing. I bush hog/mow my fields and manually rake up the straw/grass clippings and so have as much of it for free as I want. I'm doing this on a budget so free is good. Hay is different from straw/grass clippings, of course as it's hollow and has higher nutritional value which is why livestock eat it. But in your view, straw is one thing, grass clippings is something else. Do you think of straw as more course, maybe and grass clippings more fine smaller, perhaps?

Thanks much for the great info,
Guppy

Chopped straw is completely different from grass clippings. Straw is an agricultural by-product, the dry stalks of cereal plants, after the grain and chaff have been removed.Due to the risk of impaction and its poor nutrient profile, it should always be restricted to part of the diet for heriboves--chickens should avoid this. It is also hollow and a great place for mites and fleas to live. Chopped grass, Bermuda, Timothy etc. however is great for nutrients, and because it's chopped or mowed and not stalks no impaction problems--my girls think it's wonderful.

 

[GuppyTJ]

Chopped straw is completely different from grass clippings. Straw is an agricultural by-product, the dry stalks of cereal plants, after the grain and chaff have been removed.Due to the risk of impaction and its poor nutrient profile, it should always be restricted to part of the diet for heriboves--chickens should avoid this. It is also hollow and a great place for mites and fleas to live. Chopped grass, Bermuda, Timothy etc. however is great for nutrients, and because it's chopped or mowed and not stalks no impaction problems--my girls think it's wonderful.

Aha, I see what I was not understanding. I believe people use the terms in informal settings to mean the same thing. Farmers in my area bush hog their unplanted fields to use for bedding for their animals and a few bail it and sell it as "bedding straw." These fields are not planted, just meadows where horses, cattle, goats, you name it, live and graze. Before I got chickens, my neighbor bush hogged my field and used it for bedding for his horses. He buys real hay (alfalfa, etc) for them to EAT. So, because I have this nearly endless supply, I'm using grass clippings/straw for my bedding. I guess it's probably the same as yours, just a lot more course with all sorts of different things in it. Weeds mostly! And some regular grass!

Homestead Girl, If you are still following this thread, would you be able to address my question, regarding how you think deep litter would work in my situation, as described in my post above? I really want to try it but I wonder if my chickens are in the coop enough to make it work well. Please see/read above in post #38 of this thread, thanks. It would be a lot of work to set it up so before I do, I thought you might have an opinion on how it would work in my situation.

Also... I was thinking Homestead Girl... you mentioned you toss your household compost-able foodstuff under the roost and the chickens turn it over, I assume scratching for the food. Wouldn't that mean that the chickens are eating the household scraps that would be at least partially coated with chicken poo? I bet I'm missing something but I was thinking about how I tend to keep their food and poo away from each other but this method seems to put it purposefully all together. What do you think?

Thanks again, much appreciated,
Guppy