Retirement Venting

Once upon a time in America business had what was referred to as the "social contract" the idea being that your employees gave of their time to you and gave you loyalty and their intellectual work. In return, companies also gave loyalty and promises of security if you stayed and kept up your end of the bargain.

In the early 80s an economist named Milton Friedman came into prominence. He believed that the idea of the social contract was tantamount to socialism. He linked the two in everyone's mind even though they are not the same idea at all. He said the deal between business and its employees was simply a business arrangement. You gave work they gave money. If you didn't work to their satisfaction they gave you no money. If you could find some one else to give you more money you left. initially, this worked well for everyone.

But, they soon discovered that employees who have no loyalty to the firm will do what is in their best interest not what is good for the long term viability of the company. Many firms had self funded self sustaining pension plans made up of the money put in by the firm, and its employees over many many years. Under Friedman this money was a loss. It was just sitting their. So he convinces the powers of the time to change the laws and allow firms to "spend" pension money on the promise that they would make more money by spending it and would easily be able to handle the pension debt later. They used pension funds like giant piggy banks. Many middle sized firms were bought out under hostile terms just for their pension fund. The new owner would empty the fund and the sell the firm at auction prices. Leaving them now with a future pension "debt".

Many people now scream about these horrible un-funded pension liabilities. These pensions were funded. The raiding of them was deliberate and not in any way the fault of the line employees who were sold away.

So few people seem to understand what happened to them or why the social contract was lost. The minute some one calls something - dang near anything - socialism they run screaming for the hills without any idea of what socialism is - or more importantly - what it is NOT.

When my husband had put in 20 years at his firm they laid him off. Then they offered him a "service award" - it was a gun.

C'mon. When no one in a firm believes in loyalty to their employer no one, not the line staff, not the CEO, is looking out for the best interest of anyone other than themselves. Congratulations to your father on his retirement. He got paid for 40 years - good for him! That's all he gets.
 
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Twentynine, sorry to upset you. It just sounded like you were upset with the current situation. Certainly the benefit situation is dire in many companies and what I said was as much for others as it was for you. I listened to fellow employees whine about the USPS for years and yet none of them thought things were bad enough to quit.

I do not think you are an idiot. Please remember you aren't the only one who reads these posts and some need a wake up call before it is too late. Beleive me I know the retirement situation is not good, nor is the employment situation. I know this first hand.

I was forced into early retirement due to disability and lost more than $30,000 a year plus benefits. I have friends who are still working. One of who has lost the use of his right arm. I just don't know what to do for him. He is single and I'm not sure if he has any idea what he's going to do.

My real point was that we as employees have to look out for ourselves and not expect companies to do that anymore. They aren't going to explain retirement plans and pensions etc. etc. As my mother-in-law would have said, you get %^$% and shoved in it.

If as you say you've been matched 7% that's better than the P.O gave me. So if all the things you say are true I don't think you've done to bad and have nothing to compain about. If I had saved 25.5 K every year since 2003 I'd be very happy. In fact I never made 25K til I started at the PO.

So in reality you will have your 401k (which is a type of retirement/pension plan) , social securtiy (whether you think so or not) and whatevery government healthplan you qualify for. Me I only have health insurance because my wife has a job, I bought as much life insurance as allowed so my wife who will get a1/4 of what I get if I die will maybe be able to keep the house and I've still got years to go before I can collect that social security you say won't be there, and that will take the place of what I get now and be less. So maybe it's me who should be asking you if you think I'm an idiot. If you say yes I won't dispute it.

The days when companies will support you for the rest of your life are gone, the days when the company you started with as a teenager, you retired from are gone. It's noted that today's youth will have had had on average of 6 jobs by the time they reach 30.

Finally FYI, 401K plans are better than a pension, because a 401K can be left to anyone you choose. Pensions can only be left to your spouse and if they are deceased it is lost. You can contribute to a 401K with a Pension plan you get what the company puts in and that's it.
With a 401K you can take it with you to the next company and transfer not only what you've contributed but what the company has contributed after being vested. (a certain number of years). With a pension that money stays where it is. If the company goes bust it can be lost.

I have a BA degree and had to research this for one of my classes. Things may have changed as it's been a number of years since I earned my degree.
 
401's have the fault of being linked to the market. Again, this was once a practical guarantee of solid growth, but it is not any more. Pensions were what was referred to as a defined benefit. You got the same amount of money each month no matter what, no matter how long you lived. You traded control for security. I know many people who have been shafted by both systems. Some had their 401s wiped out in the last crash (and ongoing crisis) and others whose pensions are now bankrupt who will only get maybe 30% of what they were promised. In both cases, the person had little to no control over what was done. Many 401s have limited options for investment choices. Some were and still are over invested in the firm itself (a suicidal plan) The pensions are not socialized promises. Most were once fully funded, the employees did not lose that money, and they do deserve it. Yet, there are people out there who would deny them their pension because it is socialism.....

When did America decide to be mean to each other? When did we decide to turn on each other? It saddens me.
 
With the PO we had a cafeteria style plan and I put the majority of my money in the safest part of the plan. It' hard to explain here. The more interest the more risk. Nothing is w/o risk unfortunately. Still at least with a 401K you can leave whatever there is to anyone you like. Do you like me?
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This is exactly right; and when my DH went out on disability due to diabetes complications, he had worked for what is now Ameren for 33 years. I know what kind of worker he was, when he work to work they got their 8 hours and more. He carried a lot of the men in his dept. because they were lazy and hateful and he didn't think it was right not to make a good wage and give it your all. You would think, after all the overtime, ideas and plain good naturedness he protrayed on that job for all those years SOMEONE in the upper management would at least CALL ONCE and ask how he is doing. Only three men out of over 200 he worked with on a regular basis ever come to see him or ask about him, and it just floors me. . .of course, its the way of the world. Don't EVER think just because you give your heart and soul to a company, there will be a plaque in your honor. Because, today its all about corporate greed and who's dog is biggest. Do I sound bitter, you bet. Now I understand why one of the old fellas who got a gold watch from them, years and years ago, threw it down and stepped on it in front of all the big wigs of the company. He knew what they were really all about, and he was right. Just took a few more years before it became apparent too all of us.

I am delighted you are doing this for your dad. This party with the family will mean more to him than any bunch of corporate people giving a handshake and a pat on the back, and then not being able to remember his name the next day!!! My DH also worked for Coca-Cola years ago too, and he hates them too.
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I have WHAT in my yard? :

401's have the fault of being linked to the market. Again, this was once a practical guarantee of solid growth, but it is not any more. Pensions were what was referred to as a defined benefit. You got the same amount of money each month no matter what, no matter how long you lived. You traded control for security. I know many people who have been shafted by both systems. Some had their 401s wiped out in the last crash (and ongoing crisis) and others whose pensions are now bankrupt who will only get maybe 30% of what they were promised. In both cases, the person had little to no control over what was done. Many 401s have limited options for investment choices. Some were and still are over invested in the firm itself (a suicidal plan) The pensions are not socialized promises. Most were once fully funded, the employees did not lose that money, and they do deserve it. Yet, there are people out there who would deny them their pension because it is socialism.....

When did America decide to be mean to each other? When did we decide to turn on each other? It saddens me.

basic plan of what I have done with my 401k.

Early in my career I put most all the monies in the equity funds, where their was great potential for growth, but also allot of risk of lost.

When I made 50 years old, I got out of the stock market plans, went with mutual funds and bonds. While they grow slower the risk is also much reduced.

So when I was young I took the risk because their was time to start over if nessecary , when I got older I switched to a more conservative plan because if I lost my money I have no time to recover.


Look I ain't got no idea about Feldman or Friedman, don't give a hoot. Dishonest is dishonest, even if it ain't against the law.

We the family and close friends had a party for my wife.​
 
annie 3001, may God bless you for being such a sweet and dedicated daughter....Tell your Dad to enjoy a really richly deserved retirement. And enjoy more time with you all. Thanks for caring and give Dad our family's congratulations and appreciation for his dedication! Nancy
 
Thank you all!
so i printed some of the nice comments to my dad, he loved them!
although hes never met you all, me either, hes helped me a great deal with my coop...and chickens!
the party was a hit! he had a great time,,, he had some tears in his eyes!
thanks again!


always a bycer,
andrea
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