RIR roo X blackstar hen (RIR x BR) - chick question

[Kytera]

RIR roo X black star hens (RIR roo/Barred Rock hen) - could chicks be autosexing like some RIR lines? All the chicks hatching are varying shades of chestnut/buff color - I am assuming because they have so much RIR. Some are lighter buff and have pale/white wings (like RIR male chicks). The darker ones don't have light wings. I also noticed some lighter ones have a dark dot on their heads and darker ones have stripes on their heads. It is similar to the dot male black stars have, or perhaps a partial chipmunk female stripe?
I am curious to see if they can be accurately sexed right now or if it would be worth banding and watching then to see how they mature. They definitely are fiesty lil things compared to orpington chicks!

 

[NatJ]

RIR roo X black star hens (RIR roo/Barred Rock hen) - could chicks be autosexing like some RIR lines? All the chicks hatching are varying shades of chestnut/buff color - I am assuming because they have so much RIR. Some are lighter buff and have pale/white wings (like RIR male chicks). The darker ones don't have light wings. I also noticed some lighter ones have a dark dot on their heads and darker ones have stripes on their heads. It is similar to the dot male black stars have, or perhaps a partial chipmunk female stripe?
I am curious to see if they can be accurately sexed right now or if it would be worth banding and watching then to see how they mature. They definitely are fiesty lil things compared to orpington chicks!

It is probably worth banding them and watching to see how they mature. I can't say whether they would be sexable by the traits you mention or not, but you can probably learn the answer within a month or two, and then you will know for future batches.

Aren't the Black Star hens black? I am puzzled that you say all the chicks are shades of chestnut/buff color, becuase I would have expect about half of them to be black instead (black back, probably lighter belly, maybe looking a bit like a penguin.)

 

[Kytera]

I was really surprised too. My aunt is hatching chestnuts, buffs, black "penguin" lookimg ones, and more that are clearly sex linked.
They won't let me band them. They are feral little pecking machines. I had to separate them because they were attacking my other chicks (orp and maran that hatched same incubator)
They are starting to feather out on the wings, and a few hint if tails and have 3 distinct patterns. The darkest chestnuts are getting red with black feathers. The lightests are getting red with white wing feathers. The middle ones are straight red feathers so far. I don't know enough about chicken genetics to understand the difference of sex linked/autosomal barring... i will attach some pics, would love thoughts and opinions!

It is probably worth banding them and watching to see how they mature. I can't say whether they would be sexable by the traits you mention or not, but you can probably learn the answer within a month or two, and then you will know for future batches.

Aren't the Black Star hens black? I am puzzled that you say all the chicks are shades of chestnut/buff color, becuase I would have expect about half of them to be black instead (black back, probably lighter belly, maybe looking a bit like a

 

[AinaWGSD]

I would also expect at least some of the chicks to be black. Statistically 50% of the offspring from this cross should be black. This shouldn't be an autosexing or sexlinked cross. Pictures would be helpful. That cross shouldn't result in any barred chicks at all (barring is the reason for the white dots on male black star chicks).

 

[Kytera]

 

[AinaWGSD]

Looks like it's just a variation in chick down color.

 

[NatJ]

I was really surprised too. My aunt is hatching chestnuts, buffs, black "penguin" lookimg ones, and more that are clearly sex linked.
They won't let me band them. They are feral little pecking machines. I had to separate them because they were attacking my other chicks (orp and maran that hatched same incubator)

That is definitely interesting!

Are you saying that you and your aunt got eggs from the same source, but your eggs are only hatching chestnut chicks while hers are hatching other colors too? That is definitely a bit of a puzzle.

How many chicks are we talking about here? It's not too hard to get two or three and miss some of the colors, but it's much less likely if you have a large number of chicks.

They are starting to feather out on the wings, and a few hint if tails and have 3 distinct patterns. The darkest chestnuts are getting red with black feathers. The lightests are getting red with white wing feathers. The middle ones are straight red feathers so far.

It looks like you posted pictures of the ones with red & black and the straight red ones, but not the ones with white wing feathers?

Looks like it's just a variation in chick down color.

For the pictures that were posted, I agree with this. Just variation that has nothing to do with sex of chick.

I don't know enough about chicken genetics to understand the difference of sex linked/autosomal barring... i will attach some pics, would love thoughts and opinions!

I don't think you have any barring in those chicks.

Sex linked barring makes white stripes across the feathers, no matter what other colors might be in the feathers. It is the kind found in Barred Rocks (on black) and Cream Legbars (on a gold-and-black base) and Delawares (on a white-and-black base, so you only see the bars where they cross the black areas.)

Sex linked barring is caused by the barring gene, which is dominant and is located on the Z sex chromosome.

Autosomal barring can cause gold and black to be in stripes across the feathers. Gold Campines are an example of this:
https://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/golden_campines.html
That is caused by a combination of genes that together arrange the black and the gold into bars.
When the gold gene is replaced by the silver gene, all the gold areas turn white. This coloring is found in Fayoumi chickens:
https://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/egyptian_fayoumis.html
At that point, it can look similar to a chicken with the barring gene (the sexlinked one that makes white stripes), but the genetics involved are quite different.

The combination of genes that makes autosomal barring is quite similar to the combination of genes that makes Lacing, or Double Lacing, or Spangling. Each of them is just a little different than the others (genetically speaking).
Examples of those other patterns, some in gold and some in silver:
https://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/golden_laced_wyandottes.html
Laced in Wyandotte
https://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/silver_spangled_hamburgs.html
Spangled in Hamburg
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/tls-ranch-barnevelders.62849/
Double Laced in Barnevelders (scroll down, the pattern is much more obvious on the hens than the roosters)

 

[Kytera]

That is definitely interesting!

Are you saying that you and your aunt got eggs from the same source, but your eggs are only hatching chestnut chicks while hers are hatching other colors too? That is definitely a bit of a puzzle.

How many chicks are we talking about here? It's not too hard to get two or three and miss some of the colors, but it's much less likely if you have a large number of chicks.


It looks like you posted pictures of the ones with red & black and the straight red ones, but not the ones with white wing feathers?


For the pictures that were posted, I agree with this. Just variation that has nothing to do with sex of chick.


I don't think you have any barring in those chicks.

Sex linked barring makes white stripes across the feathers, no matter what other colors might be in the feathers. It is the kind found in Barred Rocks (on black) and Cream Legbars (on a gold-and-black base) and Delawares (on a white-and-black base, so you only see the bars where they cross the black areas.)

Sex linked barring is caused by the barring gene, which is dominant and is located on the Z sex chromosome.

Autosomal barring can cause gold and black to be in stripes across the feathers. Gold Campines are an example of this:
https://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/golden_campines.html
That is caused by a combination of genes that together arrange the black and the gold into bars.
When the gold gene is replaced by the silver gene, all the gold areas turn white. This coloring is found in Fayoumi chickens:
https://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/egyptian_fayoumis.html
At that point, it can look similar to a chicken with the barring gene (the sexlinked one that makes white stripes), but the genetics involved are quite different.

The combination of genes that makes autosomal barring is quite similar to the combination of genes that makes Lacing, or Double Lacing, or Spangling. Each of them is just a little different than the others (genetically speaking).
Examples of those other patterns, some in gold and some in silver:
https://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/golden_laced_wyandottes.html
Laced in Wyandotte
https://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/silver_spangled_hamburgs.html
Spangled in Hamburg
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/tls-ranch-barnevelders.62849/
Double Laced in Barnevelders (scroll down, the pattern is much more obvious on the hens than the roosters)

Thank you for those links! I am trying to learn the genetics - it is a lot!
Sorry for the confusion, my aunt gave me the eggs that I hatched. She has about 24 in her flock (her RIR roo, a few barred rock hens, black sex linked hens, and a young black sex linked roo - BSL are offspring of her RIR roo and BR). I incubated a dozen, 9 hatched and all are varying shades chestnut to buff.

At hatching

1 wk old

2 wks old (with a choc orp friend) The darker ones are feathering out so much faster! I will have to get an updated group pic,but lots of chestnut, dark brown, and black in the feathers. They are fiesty lil things too.

 

[Kytera]

I am thinking maybe the blackstar/BSL hens back crossed to the RIR roo is why they are so red... I am just surprised there are no black at all. My aunt (whose flock they came from) has hatched several dozen now and is getting the expected mix.

 

[NatJ]

I am thinking maybe the blackstar/BSL hens back crossed to the RIR roo is why they are so red... I am just surprised there are no black at all. My aunt (whose flock they came from) has hatched several dozen now and is getting the expected mix.

Yes, I think that is the most likely explanation, but I agree it is a bit odd that the 9 you hatched do not include any black ones.