RIR Rooster over Hyline Brown hens

[okstate1010]

Has anyone hatched eggs from RIR Roosters over Hyline Brown hens? I know Hyline is a brand, not a breed; It's my understanding that they are made by mating a RIR Rooster to New Hampshire hens. Would this make a 3/4 RIR and 1/4 New Hampshire red offspring? I know genetics are far more complex than that, but wondering what the result is if anyone has done it. Thanks.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I know Hyline is a brand, not a breed; It's my understanding that they are made by mating a RIR Rooster to New Hampshire hens.

This is not my understanding.. but something closer ISA brown would be RIR or NH sires over white leghorn dames for sexlinking and laying traits.

Would this make a 3/4 RIR and 1/4 New Hampshire red offspring? I know genetics are far more complex than that,

You said it.. genetics is more complicated than that.. So basically the answer is no, not in my opinion or experience.

FWIW.. RIRX NH are often referred to as "production reds" in the industry.

 

[rockethoe]

This is not my understanding.. but something closer ISA brown would be RIR or NH sires over white leghorn dames for sexlinking and laying traits.

I know Im resurrecting a dead thread here, but I thought that white eggs were generally considered dominant trait - wouldn't crossing anything with a leghorn general end in a bird laying white eggs?isa browns and most hybrids are brown egg layers.

 

[NatJ]

I know Im resurrecting a dead thread here, but I thought that white eggs were generally considered dominant trait - wouldn't crossing anything with a leghorn general end in a bird laying white eggs?isa browns and most hybrids are brown egg layers.

Brown vs. white is mostly controlled by a large number of genes, and mixing them will usually give eggs of an in-between color (so probably light brown or cream.) I suppose "incompletely dominant" would be the right term for each of those genes.

There is one dominant gene that causes white eggs, but it is sex linked. A Leghorn rooster with brown-egg hens will produce daughters that lay white or almost-white eggs. But a Leghorn hen with roosters of the same brown-egg breeds will produce daughters that lay a medium shade of brown. (That is how researchers in the past figured it out: they made crosses both directions, and looked at what color eggs were produced by the daughters.)

The common hybrids that are color-sexable and lay brown eggs do not have any Leghorn parents. White Leghorn hens do not have the right genes to produce color-sexable chicks. So even though the egg color is not the reason, you are right that Leghorns are not used to produce the ISA Browns and similar hybrids.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I know Im resurrecting a dead thread here, but I thought that white eggs were generally considered dominant trait - wouldn't crossing anything with a leghorn general end in a bird laying white eggs?isa browns and most hybrids are brown egg layers.

My understanding is all eggs except true blue get their color laid on top of the white shell.. So it would essentially make it a lighter shade but not white. See this BASIC (not completely accurate but still good) example from google (other original link also included after image)..

https://104homestead.com/creating-egg-colors/

I would call white the recessive trait since it's easily covered or hidden by any other color factor.. but please do understand that I'm no expert. Notice in the example above white is never the outcome of crossing to another color.

There is one dominant gene that causes white eggs, but it is sex linked. A Leghorn rooster with brown-egg hens will produce daughters that lay white or almost-white eggs. But a Leghorn hen with roosters of the same brown-egg breeds will produce daughters that lay a medium shade of brown. (That is how researchers in the past figured it out: they made crosses both directions, and looked at what color eggs were produced by the daughters.)

Interesting.. it's often more complex than just what meets the eye (as in direction matters). It's been a really long time since I was breeding Marans.. but it was indicated back then by the research I did also that the sire had more influence over the shade of eggs laid by offspring than the dame did.

 

[NatJ]

My understanding is all eggs except true blue get their color laid on top of the white shell.

For what happens as the egg is formed inside the hen, that mostly matches my understanding.

White eggs are just white.
Blue eggs are just blue (the whole shell is blue instead of white.)
Brown eggs are "white" with a coating of brown on the outside.
Green eggs are "blue" with a coating of brown on the outside.
The brown coating can be thicker or thinner, lighter or darker, slightly different shades (redder or yellowish or pinkish or whatever.)

I would call white the recessive trait since it's easily covered or hidden by any other color factor.

Not quite right. Recessive and dominant have to do with how the individual genes behave, not what color is physically over what other color as the egg is formed.

If a chicken has one gene for blue shell, and one gene for not-blue shell, then her eggs will be blue. Blue is dominant over white in that case.

If a chicken has one gene for brown on the shell, and one gene for no brown coating on the shell, she can show light brown (incompletely dominant: both effects show.)

For the sexlinked gene for white eggs, it blocks the brown that can otherwise be caused by other genes. That gene is on the Z sex chromosome, and a hen only has one Z sex chromosome (her other one is a W.) Since she only has one of that gene, either she has it (lays white eggs) or she does not have it (might lay brown eggs, might lay white eggs because of other genes.) A rooster has sex chromosomes ZZ, so he can have one white-egg gene and one not-white-egg gene. But since he does not lay eggs, we cannot tell which of those genes is actually dominant (which effect happens when a bird has both forms.)

Notice in the example above white is never the outcome of crossing to another color.

That example does not show white from any cross because they are ignoring the case of White Leghorn rooster to brown egg hen, that does produce daughters who lay white eggs.

Interesting.. it's often more complex than just what meets the eye (as in direction matters). It's been a really long time since I was breeding Marans.. but it was indicated back then by the research I did also that the sire had more influence over the shade of eggs laid by offspring than the dame did.

Yes, direction matters sometimes and not other times. Just to keep us confused

It is similar to how the direction matters in barred/not-barred crosses (one way makes sexlinks, the other makes all chicks have barring), but direction does not matter in crosses with mottled chickens. This is because barring is also on the Z sex chromosome, while mottling is not.