Rooster attacks when I'm not around...?

[Folly's place]

C, I love your posts, and I'm sure your methods work for you, but maybe not for everyone, especially the new folks with children. Mary

 

[centrarchid]

C, I love your posts, and I'm sure your methods work for you, but maybe not for everyone, especially the new folks with children.  Mary

I have very small children and was one myself with chickens. My approach would work for a lot more people if simply tried. Too much out of hand rejection without even trying something different yourself. I am still learning about chickens and will likely never cease so long as involved with them. You could re-open the door to knowledge as well.

 

[chooks4life]

I have very small children and was one myself with chickens. My approach would work for a lot more people if simply tried.

Too much out of hand rejection without even trying something different yourself.

I wasn't --- and still am not --- willing to invest the next few decades of my life to constantly training, retraining, reinforcing training, in every aggressive rooster and all his offspring, and their offspring, and so on down the line, for sufficient generations to eradicate it.

The management I found worked to some degree with aggressive chooks, back when I was still trying to 'fix' them, still represented a long-term endeavor I would only commit to if I had a completely different situation with rare and valuable birds, no children to consider, a decent setup enabling such intensive management and rehabilitation (I prefer free range setups not permanent caging) and a whole bunch of other factors... So, in less words, not right for me.

I am still learning about chickens and will likely never cease so long as involved with them. You could re-open the door to knowledge as well.

If you can lay out a workplan or rehab plan for this rooster, here is a willing pupil eager to try to save their bird, and you're the only person on this forum I know of who thinks it's feasible to rehabilitate aggressive behavior rather than just isolate it in cages permanently, or beat the chook into conditional respect, or cull against its aggression.

So, by all means, please share what you think is the ideal method for handling this.
Best wishes and thanks in advance.

 

[centrarchid]

My aggression management has more to do with prevention and the labor / time invested is not more than used to promote aggression. In some ways, good husbandry actually involves less time invested.



See following post in thread. https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/897832/2-yr-old-rooster-has-gone-psycho/189

Methods and details to logic provided although not in that order. Roosters / chickens in general are not simply machines that operate purely as a function of their genetics. Unfortunately you can do a lot to promote aggression without realizing it. Genetics does play a role but is not the only factor.

Below are aggression categories as I recognize them and eluded to previously in thread. Each is defined when answering description of aggressive behavior. Pictures and videos I feel would help greatly and such are in the works. I also think maturation process needs to introduced to discussion where the term ”rooster” is avoided. Also, many of the forms of aggression below are not exclusively the realm of males.

1) Is he just running over, pecking / flogging then running to a safe distance to deny your counter attack and simply watching you?

Bird has associated such behavior with a reward. In most instances I have seen the bird has obtained food faster or in larger amounts by engaging in some behavior directed at you. This is frequently realized with brooder reared birds interacting with you as feeders are armed or eats otherwise become more evident with you present. Another situation is where birds work their basic tendency to try and get at the most attractive food which to them often involves it appearing fresh within their field of view. For me that can involve putting feed out from a bucket as feeding a flock of hungry birds. They rush after you pushing each and sometimes in the excitement the bucket or even you. Many people see such behavior and promptly put feed out for the apparently famished bird. It takes very little for bird to associate intense response with getting more or faster.

Prevention: Avoid rewarding exploratory behavior such as pecking and jumping up for food. Make so food reward is delayed relative to your activity around birds. My favorite technique is apply feed either when birds are asleep or foraging elsewhere. With latter you just call birds in after feed is applied.

Correction: Move about flock / bird even with feed but do not give feed out until bird looses interest.
Benefits of Behavior to You or Bird: I manipulate this behavior train birds for experiments and interacting positively with the public. Behavior promoted simply does not involve what a person would see as aggression. Smart birds are really prone to this.


2) Is he standing his ground and flaring his hackles and interspersing this with outright attacks with spurs, wings and bill?

He is outright fighting you for rank and treats you as a conspecific. Based on most discussions this the assumed by keepers of man-fighters. Something is or has gone on that got him into mindset that you need to be and can be defeated so as to be a subordinate. Somewhere along the line you got too familiar with him and / or he learned through exploratory pecking he can make you retreat. This is particularly prevalent with folks that are uncomfortable around their birds. Even many experienced keepers are afraid of their birds for one reason or another and sometimes these people are prone to act aggressively against the birds and even bully them. This situation is more frequent than you might suspect and denial is often a part of the problem. Folks like this may need to visit with the equivalent of Alcohol Anonymous to work problem out. I have even seen people into gamefowl that are scared of their birds and they would be ready to fight you if you said they were such. Males in particular will take advantage of activities that make them feel tough. This is where genetics can also impact predisposition for man-fighting.

Prevention: Do not retreat from him when exploratory pecking or even flogging occurs. Do not attack him in response to an attack as it is very difficult to do so with appearing to alternate between bouts of attack and retreat like which occurs when birds fight.

Correction: Make so aggressive bird can engage you by fighting you but do nothing that would be interpreted as fighting back or retreating. Let him wail away (flog) which may last several minutes. If he breaks off attack, then move towards him but do not even give him the respect of eye contact. Do not strike or push him. Repeat until he stops. Process may need to be repeated in subsequent days with hardheaded birds. You want him to start thinking of you as something that is very much not another chicken. This may mean a flannel shirt or sweat shirt and jeans. Ideally you will appear the same as you do on other days so he does not test you for days when you are weak. If spurs are an issue which they can be with birds more than 18 months old, then they can be neutralized by removal, trimming or covering with the equivalent of boxing gloves (most laymen will not have last option owing to legal restrictions). An alternative to this approach can involve the restraint / time-out sessions where bird does not get the release associated with combat but does get a penalty he will learn to avoid. This technique does appear to work although it takes more time and is hard on birds that are flighty and prone to panic when restrained which is a form of stress.

Benefits of Behavior to You or Bird: Can be used to help sell a gamerooster to a fool. In a competitive breeding setting such as in a commercial flock more aggressive birds garner more fertilizations of eggs therefore tend to be more prolific. This not directly related to what is referred to as gameness in gamefowl.


3) Is he attacking while fluffed up like a hen making lots of noises and moving about in a very fussy manner? This if often associated with roosters where members of his harem (hen(s) or offspring) are scared. Many roosters, especially games will attack whatever they see as the threat and sometimes, real or not, that can be you. His response will be in trying to repel you. Rooster may also get touchy when new feathers are coming in during molt.

Prevention: Be careful around birds, especially when hens or chicks are involved. Avoid grabbing birds during daylight. Get birds to move voluntarily. Any rooster is easier to work with when his charges are calmer so always having all birds tame helps immensely. One crazy hen can stir up a male. I always manage for calm birds and that means starting from before hatch of an individual. Be careful when handling birds, especially during molt.

Correction: Frequent low intensity interactions without stirring anyone up reduces sensitivity to your activities.

Benefits of Behavior to You or Bird: Such behavior can increase survival of males offspring which can benefit you. This especially with small predators a male can repel or distract.

Culling can also be employed, but some parties will, as a function of their husbandry technique, be culling a lot of birds that would not be problematic for most poultry keepers.​

 

[chooks4life]

@kuhnse51 Looking forward to a follow up if possible, if/when you try centrarchid's (or anyone else's) rehabilitation methods. The more info the better.

Trying to get some consensus on how workable these rehab plans are for the average poultrykeeper, since that thread centrarchid linked to was sometimes incomprehensible in terms of evaluating and defining success, and man did we go back and forth over the subject without getting to any clear bottom line!

More people relaying experiences will help there.

Good luck.

 

[kuhnse51]

@centrarchid a little more information on how he acts... when my BO heard my mom's voice outside before he could even see her at all he started to crow repeatedly (I was in the coop). I picked him up and brought him outside the door so he could see my mom and I asked my mom to come over and say "hi". She won't go in the coop or near him unless I'm holding him. As she got closer he seemed to get a little more fidgety and nervous, he is normally pretty still and calm when being held. My mom rubbed his neck a little and pet him briefly then walked away. He did not try to peck at her or anything like that and just seemed to have a look like "what's going on" lol. I put him back in the coop and he continued to crow for another minute or so. How would you go about this? I'm trying to convince my mom to get more hands on with helping me correct this but she doesn't seem to want to go for it. My intention with bringing him out to my mom is to show him she's not a threat, should I continue doing this or what should I try?

 

[chooks4life]

@centrarchid a little more information on how he acts... when my BO heard my mom's voice outside before he could even see her at all he started to crow repeatedly (I was in the coop). I picked him up and brought him outside the door so he could see my mom and I asked my mom to come over and say "hi". She won't go in the coop or near him unless I'm holding him. As she got closer he seemed to get a little more fidgety and nervous, he is normally pretty still and calm when being held. My mom rubbed his neck a little and pet him briefly then walked away. He did not try to peck at her or anything like that and just seemed to have a look like "what's going on" lol. I put him back in the coop and he continued to crow for another minute or so. How would you go about this? I'm trying to convince my mom to get more hands on with helping me correct this but she doesn't seem to want to go for it. My intention with bringing him out to my mom is to show him she's not a threat, should I continue doing this or what should I try?

How's it going? Any progress?

The issue I have with the treatment plans laid out by Centrarchid is that they presuppose and depend on several things that are absent with many aggression cases... Such as pet treatment (many people never did that and still had aggression issues) and there being an obvious cause and effect (such as the rooster getting some reward for his behavior, which is also not present in many cases)... Etc. Still, surely they should work for someone, with some roosters. Just waiting to hear back from anyone that's tried it.

Would like to know how your case is going.

Best wishes.

 

[kuhnse51]

@chooks4life he seems to be doing better but not 100% better. I went down with my sister and had her go in alone before me so I could kind of see how he reacted around her. He stayed back for a while but eventually started pecking at her feet (I think to see what she would do) I told her not to back up as he would think he won or something. So she stood her ground. He kept pecking so I had her pick him up and hold him for 5-10 min. After putting him down he did not continue to peck at her. He has not gone after her the past few times she has been down there after this. My mom collected the eggs the other day also and said he did not go after her! I also had 2 young family members who were visiting go see the chickens, they have never actually been in the coop before. I was very cautious and watching him very closely to see how he would react. He was watching them and went near them but did not try to peck or attack in any way. But, the other night my niece went in the coop and after a few minutes he pecked at her feet (he has normally never had a problem with her but she hadn't been in the coop for a few weeks). So there's still something to work on but when he does attack it's not the spurring that he has done in the past. It's just an aggressive peck at the feet on very rare occasions which isn't ideal but a lot better than being spurred.

 

[chooks4life]

Thanks for the update. Will be interesting to see how it ends up!

Good luck and best wishes.

 

[Richie]

He loves you! When I was a kid, my friends had a chicken farm with a rooster that attacked everyone who walked by the coop except for my friend's uncle. The rooster used to come into the barn to visit with him and they hung out together. I don't think that anyone else was safe, so they had to keep him locked up and let my friend's uncle feed him and take care of the chickens. I had a Sumatra rooster, years ago, that used to fly up on my shoulder and go with me to do my chores. He, however, did not like anyone else and I confined him when the kids were outside. There are roosters, much like some other pets, who decide whom they like and are great to those people. Enjoy him and alert others to just not go near him.