I had the nesting boxes on 5" runners and a roost pole that they never seemed to use. They started sleeping in the nesting boxes along with pooping in them. So...I raised the nesting boxes onto posts, put on a slanted roof so they could not roost on them, and built a roosting ladder out of 2" x 2"s. The demensions for the ladder are 6' tall and 2' wide. The rungs are set at 2 feet, 3 1/2 feet, and 5 feet. They were on it within minutes and as you can tell from the pics, life is grand.