Roundworm Retreatment

[Winderdear]

I have a hen who had roundworms back in Mid-October. She was on Molly’s Herbals worm treatment all her life, but we gave the flock safeguard aquasol when we saw that there was an infestation.

We want to retreat the flock with safeguard in case she still has worms, but we gave her the #1 herbal treatment in her food this morning. I just wondered if that was safe to do, or if we should wait a day. Does anyone know?

———

Here is some extra background info, if needed:

Our whole flock is on Molly’s Herbal worm prevention treatment, which is a weekly herbal addition to their food. It has two parts, one (#1) with wormwood which is the stronger dose, given three days in a row every 8 weeks, and a weaker dose (#2) with mugwort which is given once a week in the 7 weeks in between.

It was on the first dose of the #2 treatment that came after the week of #1 treatment when the dead worms started being expelled. When we saw this, we decided to treat the whole flock with safeguard aquasol, just to be sure. We did so for 5 days, and never saw a single wormy poop. I have heard that it can dissolve the worm bodies, but I don’t know how true that is.

It’s been over 2 weeks since the last day of safeguard, and the same hen seems to have a slow crop and some weight loss. She is molting, so I don’t know if that’s the cause or not of the weight loss. She doesn’t have reduced appetite.

 

[nuthatched]

It's unlikely there will be a side effect with the herbs but if you want, wait a few days.
Frankly, I'd skip the herbal stuff as it barely works and is just diluted poisons.

 

[coach723]

When worms die off inside the bird, whether from worming, or from their life cycle, some of them may be expelled, but many are just digested by the bird. They ARE in the digestive tract. If you see a lot expelled that can be an indication that they are carrying a fairly heavy load. Sometimes you may see none expelled, that doesn't mean they weren't there.
The issue with the Aqua sol is that it's dosing is based on the average intake of water per day. If a bird isn't feeling well they may not drink well and may get under dosed. That is why I prefer direct dosing my birds, by weight, that way I know they got the correct dose each and every time. Especially if they are feeling unwell or looking off.
Molt can make them feel bad as well, and sometimes they don't eat well. So definitely something to consider.
The chemical wormers and the herbals work very differently. The herbals work by attempting to make the gut less hospitable for them. Dosing is always a question with herbals. The herbs themselves can vary greatly in the compounds they provide depending on soil, weather, climate, time of year harvested, etc. So dosing is much more difficult to do accurately. Honestly, I don't find them to be particularly effective. The chemical wormers affect the cellular function of the parasites and cause their death. There is no evidence that I can find that the herbals and the fenbendazole have any interactions. Personally I would stop the herbals for a couple of days and then treat with the fenbendazole, just to make sure. And I would use a form you can direct dose (horse paste or liquid goat wormer are usually easy to find), rather than mix in the water. At least for the one bird you are concerned about. Worm her that way to see if it makes a difference, then you can worm the rest if wanted/needed. There is a caution for using fenbendazole during molt as it can possibly cause feather issues in new growing feathers. So if that is a concern then using a different wormer like albendazole or levimasole can be used instead.
For the slow crop, if it's not molt or parasites, then depending on age there are other things to consider as reproductive problems can cause crops to back up as well.

 

[Winderdear]

Thank you @nuthatched and @coach723 , I will stop the herbal medicine while we treat with a chemical dewormer. I appreciate the advice.

We’ve been doing a lot of internet research, and my husband is now concerned she might have pendulous crop. I took a picture. She is only 1.5 years old. She is molting right now so her chest feathers are not all in yet. I can’t tell if the molt is just making it look abnormal or if there’s really something wrong. Can anyone let me know if this looks like pendulous crop?



She had a rather watery dropping after, where the split peas in her mash were not digested. I have a picture of that if necessary.

 

[coach723]

The crop looks full, whether it's pendulous or not, can't really tell in a picture. You can try a crop bra to see if it helps empty better. They can take some adjusting to get them fit right, put it on looser at first, so you don't force contents up, just support the crop. As it empties you can tighten it up more. If, with support from a crop bra it still doesn't empty, then there likely is more going on. Worming may help, if she is indeed carrying a load of parasites. It may take several days with the crop bra before you can tell for sure. In the case of parasites, I've had birds take up to a week post worming to have digestion looking normal again when the load has been heavy enough to cause crop stasis.

 

[Winderdear]

The crop looks full, whether it's pendulous or not, can't really tell in a picture. You can try a crop bra to see if it helps empty better. They can take some adjusting to get them fit right, put it on looser at first, so you don't force contents up, just support the crop. As it empties you can tighten it up more. If, with support from a crop bra it still doesn't empty, then there likely is more going on. Worming may help, if she is indeed carrying a load of parasites. It may take several days with the crop bra before you can tell for sure. In the case of parasites, I've had birds take up to a week post worming to have digestion looking normal again when the load has been heavy enough to cause crop stasis.

Thank you, I really appreciate your help!

 

[dawg53]

In addition to what @coach723 stated, it's best to worm each bird orally using a syringe without a needle, that way you know they got wormed properly. Safeguard liquid goat wormer or Albendazole liquid wormer are best.
Mixing wormers in water isnt very effective since you dont know if they actually drank the treated water, or enough of it to be effective. Also, chickens drink less during cool or cold temps.