Run Floor

[Sydney Acres]

Quote:
The likelihood of Marek's disease in a nine year old rooster is quite low. He was a very old bird, and cancer is very common in chickens. Fingers crossed for you that is was nothing contagious. Old birds are much more susceptible to intestinal worms (which rarely are visible in the droppings, so either routine fecals at the vet or routine deworming is worthwhile), external parasites, invisible infections, and organ malfunctions (like kidney, heart, and liver disease), as well as cancer, are fairly common. Old birds lose condition very quickly, but invisibly under their feathers. It is probably worthwhile for anyone who has pet chickens to get an accurate scale (either a food scale that weighs up to 10-12 pounds, or a baby scale that weighs up to 20 pounds, widely available for less than $50, and the food scales can be found less than $20 sometimes) and weigh each bird every month. Keep good records, and any time there's an unexpected drop in weight start weighing that bird every day. If the downward trend continues then you know something is wrong, even if they seem fine. It's an easy early warning monitor, and you don't have to have a veterinary degree to recognize a subtle change.

You can often get the older birds to eat better by offering them their regular pellets/crumbles that have been soaked in cool water for a few minutes, fed every morning before it gets so hot. That way you get to observe them eating, and know who is eating well. It also gets them into a routine of eating a larger meal at a certain time of day, and the ones with the sluggish appetites are more likely to participate in the feeding frenzy. You can also add healthy treats to the balanced food this way, instead of feeding the treats separately, so they get to enjoy their treats and eat a balanced meal all at the same time. I sometimes add apple juice or chicken broth to the pellets instead of water for extra flavor. Mixing in treats with wet mash works much better than with dry food, as they're less likely to sort through the wet food looking for the treats.

 

[SilkieNation]

The likelihood of Marek's disease in a nine year old rooster is quite low. He was a very old bird, and cancer is very common in chickens. Fingers crossed for you that is was nothing contagious. Old birds are much more susceptible to intestinal worms (which rarely are visible in the droppings, so either routine fecals at the vet or routine deworming is worthwhile), external parasites, invisible infections, and organ malfunctions (like kidney, heart, and liver disease), as well as cancer, are fairly common. Old birds lose condition very quickly, but invisibly under their feathers. It is probably worthwhile for anyone who has pet chickens to get an accurate scale (either a food scale that weighs up to 10-12 pounds, or a baby scale that weighs up to 20 pounds, widely available for less than $50, and the food scales can be found less than $20 sometimes) and weigh each bird every month. Keep good records, and any time there's an unexpected drop in weight start weighing that bird every day. If the downward trend continues then you know something is wrong, even if they seem fine. It's an easy early warning monitor, and you don't have to have a veterinary degree to recognize a subtle change.

You can often get the older birds to eat better by offering them their regular pellets/crumbles that have been soaked in cool water for a few minutes, fed every morning before it gets so hot. That way you get to observe them eating, and know who is eating well. It also gets them into a routine of eating a larger meal at a certain time of day, and the ones with the sluggish appetites are more likely to participate in the feeding frenzy. You can also add healthy treats to the balanced food this way, instead of feeding the treats separately, so they get to enjoy their treats and eat a balanced meal all at the same time. I sometimes add apple juice or chicken broth to the pellets instead of water for extra flavor. Mixing in treats with wet mash works much better than with dry food, as they're less likely to sort through the wet food looking for the treats.

I think that's what the vet is thinking - that he just got old and got cancer. I did a fecal on him about three weeks ago and on the hens about a week or so later - totally negative for everything. I've been thinking about a scale because my old hen got horribly thin before she died and I couldn't see it with all of her fluff. Learning some lessons here... I was going to see how much they cost; $50 is not bad at all in the scheme of things. Thank you for the advice. I'm going to take it.

As far as the food goes, they have dry all night so that it's there when they wake up. When I've been bringing them fresh water and food in the morning, I feel their crops - empty. This morning I slept in so I didn't get to them until 9:30 and their crops were empty. I don't think that's normal. I've been wondering about enhancing the flavor of their food, but wonder then if they will get used to it and never eat it straight, which might be okay I guess. I'm feeding them organic Scratch n' Peck and a multi-flock from Nutrena. I also ferment and give them some of that separately. They just pick around most of the time - sometimes they'll eat for awhile, but usually they just pick. And of course, they stopped laying about three weeks or so ago.

If it's because I was feeding too large a quantity of treats (greens, berries, mealies, bit of corn, some whole grains, other things healthy), do you know how long it takes to re-balance once the treats are significantly reduced? I'm waiting for an egg.

 

[Sydney Acres]

Quote:
Late morning crops that are empty are definitely not normal. They should wake up hungry and eat at daybreak.

Is the Nutrena a pellet or crumble? Is this the product (http://www.nutrenaworld.com/product...s-poultry/country-feeds-all-flock/index.jsp)? Do you also provide oyster shells or some other form of calcium, as this does not have enough calcium in it for laying birds?

Are you using the Scratch n' Peck balanced layer formula (which is labelled as a crumble, but is technically a dry mash), or one of their grains? As birds get older, they sometimes don't do as well with a dry mash because it's harder to swallow without inhaling it, but they do well when it is moistened into a wet mash.

So just to clarify, are you saying that they're refusing a balanced diet, but eat their treats well and in large amounts? Or are you saying that they don't eat their balanced diets, and only eat their treats reluctantly, and in small quantities? If they're still eating the treats well but refusing the balanced diet, I wouldn't starve them to force the transition, as it could end badly. You can use the treats as your base, then thoroughly mix in some of the Scratch n' Peck so that it's more difficult to pick out. You can also try cooking the Scratch n 'Peck to add flavor. I have gotten many chickens to eat by getting some olive oil hot in a sauce pan, adding a teaspoon of mild curry powder to get the spices hot, then adding one cup of the dry mash. After sauteing the mash for a minute, add just enough low salt chicken broth to make a thin porridge (usually 1-2 cups, depending on the food you're using) and bring to a boil for a second, then remove from the heat and let cool. That adds a flavor that most chickens love.

 

[Sydney Acres]

Quote:
Ummmm, that was kind of my whole point. Concrete is too hard for birds to contact directly, but if it is the most practical flooring for someone to build or if you already have it in place, you can prevent damage to their feet by laying down these floor tiles, which are soft but durable.

 

[SilkieNation]

Ummmm, that was kind of my whole point. Concrete is too hard for birds to contact directly, but if it is the most practical flooring for someone to build or if you already have it in place, you can prevent damage to their feet by laying down these floor tiles, which are soft but durable.

I was just supporting your opinion. The rubber mats were there in front of me at TSC so I bought them. They work well.

 

[SilkieNation]

Late morning crops that are empty are definitely not normal. They should wake up hungry and eat at daybreak.

Is the Nutrena a pellet or crumble? Is this the product (http://www.nutrenaworld.com/product...s-poultry/country-feeds-all-flock/index.jsp)? Do you also provide oyster shells or some other form of calcium, as this does not have enough calcium in it for laying birds?

Are you using the Scratch n' Peck balanced layer formula (which is labelled as a crumble, but is technically a dry mash), or one of their grains? As birds get older, they sometimes don't do as well with a dry mash because it's harder to swallow without inhaling it, but they do well when it is moistened into a wet mash.

So just to clarify, are you saying that they're refusing a balanced diet, but eat their treats well and in large amounts? Or are you saying that they don't eat their balanced diets, and only eat their treats reluctantly, and in small quantities? If they're still eating the treats well but refusing the balanced diet, I wouldn't starve them to force the transition, as it could end badly. You can use the treats as your base, then thoroughly mix in some of the Scratch n' Peck so that it's more difficult to pick out. You can also try cooking the Scratch n 'Peck to add flavor. I have gotten many chickens to eat by getting some olive oil hot in a sauce pan, adding a teaspoon of mild curry powder to get the spices hot, then adding one cup of the dry mash. After sauteing the mash for a minute, add just enough low salt chicken broth to make a thin porridge (usually 1-2 cups, depending on the food you're using) and bring to a boil for a second, then remove from the heat and let cool. That adds a flavor that most chickens love.

Yes, the empty crops in the AM are concerning, and they don't fill up before bed either. The food I have is actually Blue Seal multi-flock chick starter/grower - crumble. I got this because of my rooster, it's what's available. And the Scratch N Peck is grower as well, which is whole grains and some cracked corn and something else I can't identify. Sometimes they eat it, just not for very long. They have oyster shell always and chick grit, fresh water of course. I am wondering if the pieces of oyster are too big for a Silkie so I just got some for caged birds that's much smaller. It's time for new food, so I am going back to layer, which, by the way I fed my rooster most of his life until I recently found out about the Ca+. Guess he did okay with it. I don't feed them mash.

So, they will eat meal worms and cracked corn with gusto. I don't know if they'd eat a lot as I am not giving them enough to fill up. They'll gobble up blueberries, raspberries, but less so with egg, greens, and other treats, except for one hen, who has the best weight right now. She'll eat it over the course of a few hours, not all at once. But, they will eat the treats more. They ate some watermelon today, but again, they ate some, then left it, went back a bit, etc., and it wasn't much. I'll try the curry dish for sure, I'm just worried that they will never eat their dry food, which is, of course, so much more convenient for me. I bought a scale on Amazon. Will weigh them when it arrives and I'll be able to compare one hen's weight as she was at the vet for bumble foot with my rooster. The bumble foot is not too bad, but she's got it on both feet. I am soaking in epsom, scrubbing with betadine and rubbing with thieves oil twice a day. If it doesn't get better soon, I will have to take her to the vet as I won't do the surgery at home. I also have some antibiotic, just want to consult with the vet as it would be her second course (we tried that initially without good results). I sanitized the coop floor and put down the rubber mats.

 

[SilkieNation]

It's Marek's. The vet just called with the biopsy results on my roo's tumor. Lymphoma. Vet says this is what they see with visceral Marek's. So, my little flock is going to die. It's just a matter of supportive care and time. Don't know why I love these little birds so much, but I do.

 

[SilkieNation]

I hope he gets better. For that kind of money I hope you get some answers.

I've checked my chicken's poo for worms and haven't seen any either and also for mites and haven't seen any, yet I still worry about it with the feather loss. They've never gone through a molt so maybe that's it. They are laying eggs just fine. The older ones with the feather loss are not laying as well as the new ones that are 23 weeks old.

Let me know how your chickens do after worming.

Marek's. Roo's tumor biopsy came back with lymphoma. I spend a lot of time with these little birds, and I will miss them.

 

[SilkieNation]

Late morning crops that are empty are definitely not normal. They should wake up hungry and eat at daybreak.

Is the Nutrena a pellet or crumble? Is this the product (http://www.nutrenaworld.com/product...s-poultry/country-feeds-all-flock/index.jsp)? Do you also provide oyster shells or some other form of calcium, as this does not have enough calcium in it for laying birds?

Are you using the Scratch n' Peck balanced layer formula (which is labelled as a crumble, but is technically a dry mash), or one of their grains? As birds get older, they sometimes don't do as well with a dry mash because it's harder to swallow without inhaling it, but they do well when it is moistened into a wet mash.

So just to clarify, are you saying that they're refusing a balanced diet, but eat their treats well and in large amounts? Or are you saying that they don't eat their balanced diets, and only eat their treats reluctantly, and in small quantities? If they're still eating the treats well but refusing the balanced diet, I wouldn't starve them to force the transition, as it could end badly. You can use the treats as your base, then thoroughly mix in some of the Scratch n' Peck so that it's more difficult to pick out. You can also try cooking the Scratch n 'Peck to add flavor. I have gotten many chickens to eat by getting some olive oil hot in a sauce pan, adding a teaspoon of mild curry powder to get the spices hot, then adding one cup of the dry mash. After sauteing the mash for a minute, add just enough low salt chicken broth to make a thin porridge (usually 1-2 cups, depending on the food you're using) and bring to a boil for a second, then remove from the heat and let cool. That adds a flavor that most chickens love.

BTW, I made them the curry dish today and they do seem to like it. Thanks so much for the recipe. They didn't gobble it up, but ate more than they have been. At least I've got something they like to give them, supplemented with treats.

 

[Sydney Acres]

It's Marek's. The vet just called with the biopsy results on my roo's tumor. Lymphoma. Vet says this is what they see with visceral Marek's. So, my little flock is going to die. It's just a matter of supportive care and time. Don't know why I love these little birds so much, but I do.

Were was the tumor? Was it a single large tumor or multiple tumors throughout the body? There are different viruses that cause lymphoma in chickens, as well as non-viral lymphoma. Each has a different prognosis for the flockmates, as non-viral lymphoma is not contagious, whereas Lymphoid Lymphoma typically affects about 20% of the flock, although flockmembers that are affected inevitably die (per MSU, http://msucares.com/poultry/diseases/disviral.htm), and Marek's is not universally infectious to all flock members, or fatal to all affected birds. Here's a copy and paste from the same MSU site:

"Acute Marek's disease can be extremely rapid in its course, producing mortality in apparently healthy birds. However, in some cases the lesions may regress and clinically affected birds may make complete recoveries."

So it's a matter of supportive care, and time, and hope. Don't give up hope. You may not lose your entire flock. I'm so sorry this is happening to you.