Russian Orloffs

[ashandvine]

So these are the three boys that I currently have in breeding pens. Which only leaves me 13 boys that I need to process, gotta get on that. I'm holding on to my really wide cock for now, just as a backup bird and in case I have any issues with what his son throws. This is just the first round of pairings, I will shuffle things around once my incubators are full for round two.

One thing I have read is that the birds with a smoother transition from the back to the tail are wider through the body. Of course I don't remember where, if it was here on BYC, in older literature, etc, but I have noticed it does seem to be true, both in my cockerels and pullets. I'm curious if anyone else has noticed that trait?


Coming two year old cock Son to the first bird posted. Unrelated cockerel

I want to go over these with you one at a time... this first one is fabulous. While the second and third are good I think the third looks wider but the second has more proper coloration-- as I am sure you know. I definitely prefer the first and second with the first winning out only because his head is slightly better. The muffs on number two are better but that beard on the first... I long for beards like that here.


Mom (repeat breeding) Daughter (BC breeding) Unrelated pullet (test breeding)


I would like a second pic of the first gal here. The middle one I don't like but the blush in her legs and color are alright. I would not keep her personally. The third is appealing for many reasons. Her color is just right for an Orloff hen and her head and tail look great. The spangling isn't bad at all either, in fact, the best of the three.


It appears she has nice width and type... and I think her mottling will come. The one the right... no. What is that blue bird with the yellow beak at front? She appears to be an Orloff cross.



This first girl has lovely type! Tough to tell on the middle one of course and the third holds real potential. I like her head very well.

 

[RiddleMe]

Quote: Here's the requested pics of the hen above, including a recent full side shot, 2 head shots, a "tent" pic., and at ~ 9 months of age. Also added a full side shot of her daughter. You can see why I'm not too worried about her getting in her spangles. Are there type issues you don't like about these two? I know the pullet doesn't have her mom's yellow legs, but she does have yellow soles and I have lots of yellow legs running around to use to fix that.





Hen from above (at 9 months of age) Daughter at ~ same age, weighed 6lb 2 oz.


Ash - wanted to add I have a very thick skin, you won't hurt my feelings at all if you pick these birds apart, and in the process, other folks reading this will also learn. I know you have actually assisted judges at poultry shows, I'm still very new to breeding to an SOP.

edited - I pulled the pics from inside the response to put here, so they will enlarge when clicked.

 

[RiddleMe]

This is one of the sons from my "blue" line test breeding, ie the cock and hen from above. He is ~10 months in this pic and one of the reasons I'm repeating that breeding, he looks just like his dad at that age, but again weighs more. This guy is still around, I haven't decided yet if I'm going to use him or wait a year. 99% of the time his feet look fine, but then there is that occassional glance and the back toe isn't right, so I'm letting him get another season under his belt before I decide. He's also been named, something I try to avoid doing as it makes it harder to butcher them... I actually had a nicer brother, thicker boule, nicer feet and better chest, otherwise very similar, but of course he died. Cardinal rule here, do not fly into the dog yard!

 

[ashandvine]

I want to start by saying the head on the right is absolutely wonderful. If were to change one thing iit would be to slightly fatten and square out her brows. Her comb looks a little odd to me right now but Vtguania would be absolutely enthralled with that beak. I like the type I am seeing on the left though I think she might be a bit more tight on her tail. Its tough to tell. Her neck and posture here are wonderful though and the legs look good. I would want to feel her otherwise. I think the one of the left might have a slightly better slope to her back if we were to see her walking but I don't know. Its what I would look for. Her type otherwise is quite good. Also please note the hackles on the right portrait. It isn't like a long skinny neck with a sudden flare of muffs and beard. She has a full hackle that stands out a bit like a mane around her head. You do want this. I do like the ground color best on the bird in the first pic who is standing obscured at the top. She has the most traditional brown color, cinnamon we are starting to call it, of the Russians, before the intro of the Sussex mahogany. Both are pretty and many visually prefer the dark rich color of the mahogany but as someon who admires the Orloff for its origin and 'vintage' qualities I say that the lighter color is more appropriate. You other pics were tough to go by. Great pic of an open tail-- beautiful there for type. That pic also shows the flair of the hackle at the top of the head.

I also like this type quite well. Her spangling is nil and I hope she is young because she is lacking in the black marking as well. I don't know that that will develop sadly. But her shape and the slope of her head and back to tail are quite good. You can see how the posture of the walking one on the right has a slightly higher tail station as she is walking at least. Its alright but the one on the left is better. Both have god heads and legs and overall their silhouettes are good. Their color has that salmon tint that I don't see often and would rather not. Their spangling is also very odd. It appears to be developing very slowly or not at all and I would say you need to watch this in the back of your mind. It could be a very good thing if you are willing to wait the 18 mos to know if the bird is marked evenly or not. It could mean they develop very nicely and are able to be shown longer. The fluff on the left hen is better than that on the right but only slightly. See how in the left its almost an even line from tail to legs and there is a slight pantaloon on the one on the right. IMO this on the left is better for RO

His tail is too high and his color too dark. I would like to see more muffs and bears and even a fuller hackle if I had my choice. He has nearly no spangling but if he is young that is fine. I like seeing the white bar developing on the wing. That isn't as common as I would like either. He is difficult to judge without seeing how tall he is and judging his head. As you know, the head of the RO is a pivotal point of the breed. Ask me questions or put a couple in comparison and I will try to look more. When you feel your birds you want to feel their muscle and their keel. Is it bent or has it a knotch from being on a roost too early an age? How thick are the legs? What do they weigh? Is the bird wide, developing a wide brow and wide chest/shoulders? His fluff is also good btw, up tight and neat.
And I am still learning. Its going to be too much to try to be a judge and raise three-four kids at the same time as a farm etc. BUT I really do enjoy it.

 

[vtguania]

RiddleMe I agree with ashandvine on father & son being top choices. Although 1 does have a better head (good brow ridge) I personally would go with his son for the better boule, orange color in hackles/sickle and mainly the white beard/muff by preference. His beard is not as good as his dad but he is still young and as you can tell it takes maturity to get a beard looking like that. As far as the girls go I'm all for the test pullet. Yes she may seem to have too much white but she is the almost perfect one by Russian standard. Best legs I might add as well and I would prefer to see offsprings from her & the son of the 1st cock. I have a feeling it will be a decent if not pretty good turnout. Hens pass the traits to their sons. As for the girl with my dream beak, you know where I'm at on that

 

[Clucksworth]

Any Black Mottled Large Fowl breeders on here? I only know of 2 breeders in the UK with BMs (myself included) would love to know if anyone else out there keeps any?

 

[ashandvine]

There are a few folks in the UK with them, Steve Gilliver being one. Some of us are working on them here but they are only in the project stages of F1 or 2.

 

[Clucksworth]

There are a few folks in the UK with them, Steve Gilliver being one. Some of us are working on them here but they are only in the project stages of F1 or 2.

Yes, Mr. G and I are the only ones in the UK to our knowledge, and we are in very similar stages to you.

 

[RiddleMe]

RiddleMe I agree with ashandvine on father & son being top choices. Although 1 does have a better head (good brow ridge) I personally would go with his son for the better boule, orange color in hackles/sickle and mainly the white beard/muff by preference. His beard is not as good as his dad but he is still young and as you can tell it takes maturity to get a beard looking like that. As far as the girls go I'm all for the test pullet. Yes she may seem to have too much white but she is the almost perfect one by Russian standard. Best legs I might add as well and I would prefer to see offsprings from her & the son of the 1st cock. I have a feeling it will be a decent if not pretty good turnout. Hens pass the traits to their sons. As for the girl with my dream beak, you know where I'm at on that

I'm actually debating doing test pairings with the "test pullet" and at least two, if not all three, of the males. She's already in with the cock, next rotation she will go with his son. If I have time, she can go in with her 1/2 brother (the dark cockerel). It will expand my hatching season more than I planned, but if she really nicks with one of them... And I'm getting a jump on hatching this year, I set 66 eggs last week (about 2/3 are RO, the rest are Chantecler). I didn't set my first eggs until March last year. Just playing some to see if the extra month makes a difference wrt winter lay rates.

 

[RiddleMe]

Quote: I do love the black/white patterns on the Orloff, or at least the idea of them on the Orloff. The breed has such a unique look, to then add the crisp contrast of color...