Sad story (disturbing)

[RHRanch]

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Actually, the temperment requirements for todays BT is not really that much different from the temperment standards of the breed historically. The "white Cavelier" was expected to be game in the pit, but civilized enough to be taken to any friends home. They were created as a companion dog for young men, when it was a popular activity to match your dog against your friends or the local champion. It would be difficult for a young man to take his dog from place to place if that dog were not a good compnion, and of even temperment. Yet that young gentleman would also want to have his dog make him proud in competition.

 

[lasergrl]

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This yes. BUT the colby lines are man biters. The original dog of that lines was indeed a man biter. The history is readily available online. Pitbull fighting history is very interesting and you can easily spend an evening reading about Colby, .



It is NOT all about who owns them. I think its more the fault of the breeders. Do people really think that pregnant lady did something wrong? So wrong that it justifies a dog ripping her apart? Fact of the matter is ANY large dog can bite. Pitbulls may not have been bred to bite man, but they were bred to have game. Game is the mind set that once they have their mind set on something THEY DONT STOP. If that happens to be to get frenzied and bite the hand that feeds you, this is what can happen. Many terreirs can have "game" but when a jack russell goes game you can easily stop them if it is directed at you.
Just Because pits arent bred for game now (debatable as MANY are still pitt dogs) they certainly arent being bred away from it. Its been a long time since corgis have been intensely bred for herding work, yet they still have the instinct and strong! many/most pits tday are rescues, and these dogs have pit fighting in the bloodlines as well as likely guarding like noted above.

Again to each their own, but to deny that this breed can and does have the ability to kill is folly. And yes other breeds are the same. Rott and boerboel lover dont go around saying that their chosen breed would never hurt a fly. They usually say that only a certain type of person should own them. Just because you dont want something to be banned doesnt mean you ignore what they are made of and capable of. I have exotic cats (granted just a serval) but just because I wouldnt own a tiger doesnt mean I think no one should. But at the same time I dont say that the handreared tiger is incabable of killing someone. Even though it may never...it could. Everyone has their own risk level that is acceptable. happiness vs risk. You cant Love the instinct out of a breed, you just cant. You either get lucky to have a dog that would never bite/has no game, or you have a dog that is trained well and that training is a constant like any intense breed. Many a pit is laid back and mellow but like any breed there will be variables and different personalities but the general breed temperment is there. Its not prejudice, it just is responible ownership.

http://www.colbypitbull.com/

Honeybunch, jeep, and Chinaman lines are also interesting to look up.

 

[xchairity_casex]

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ah excuse me but ANY DOG not just any large dog can bite and will if not respected and handled properly.
and i agree to SOME degree breeder are somewhat responsable for what they are breeding into there dogs. ive been having this same debate with BT owners for some time there are some people who are breeding for the "olde tyme" look and personalities meaning high energy high prey drive,aggressive dogs and im just not down with that simply becuase theres not enough owners who even know HOW to deal with these dogs
BUT ANY pit bull no matter the background no matter what its been bred to do CAN be a good stable dog depending on the handler. point and fact police dogs HAVE to be somewhat human aggressive if they were not they would not run down and grab a theif,murderer,drug dealer ect its what has been bred into those dogs for YEARS yet these dogs are incredably stable and the police officers who take them home consider them to be family dogs and even have them around there children. those dogs are bred to be high energy (like pit bulls) have high prey drives (like pit bulls) are powerful and athletic (like pit bulls) so whats the differance? the fact that these lines are kept specificly for police officers who take coarses on how to properly care for these dogs theres no mistakes handlers are chosen carefully and taught how to handle them

 

[lasergrl]

I did say many times that any dog can bite. its the "game" that makes the difference. No they dont all have this trait but it can be pretty darned hard to tell until they do something undesireable.

Im pretty sure that pregnant lady that was killed, was just about as experienced as many in regards to making a "good stable dog". She was very involved in Pit rescue.
This is one of many cases where they thought they could "love" the aggression out of the dog. Its not fair to say its the owners fault when these dogs do things like this. this could happen to anyone with a large breed dog and people need to realize this and stop humanizing dogs to the degree people do.

Its still a dog and can do something drastic that it has never done before. My beef is not that pits are the only ones that do. Any dog or animal can be unpredicatable. My problem is with the pitbull scene thinking their breed is above others and is not capable of doing something this terrible and out of nowhere. Pitbull owners compared to the advocates of other breeds, refuse to believe this. Sure, I will use that debate too when they threaten a ban because i do not believe in banning the RESPONSIBLE ownership of any species or breed. BUT pit advocates go too far in the other direction.

police dogs are NOT to be human aggressive. they have drive, wich is close to game but not the same. drive can be called off with training and the training t focus that drive onto the intended mark. police dogs are trained to bite sleeves then it is transferred over to a human arm, but it takes training and alot of it. They start out with the bite sleeves never even on a human arm for months, An aggressive police dog should not be on the road. They should be trained to recognize the agression of others and react. I know personally two police dogs that were pulled and retired because they were a little human aggressive. Thats alot of money down the tubes. They were well trained but its too much of a liability.

 

[RHRanch]

Folks, what we have here is the "nurture vs nature" debate. Its both. No pit is born bad, but a pit can become bad with bad ownership or with the right circumstance. Ultimately, we the humans have the responsibility. We can choose to blame the breed alone, or we consider how we contribute or even cause this problem. Genetics (bad breedeing, gameness, selecting for agression) can load the "gun" so to speak, but a bad owner is what can pull the trigger. Bad ownership need not even mean that a owner has bad intent. A bad owner may be just an inexperienced one, or someone who doesn't understand how they are nurturing agression, or it can be outright cruelty - lots of factors. Problem is - you combine bad owners with a powerful dog like that - they can do a lot of damage. Many people have pointed that out. Problem is, thats only half the story. Pits (or any other dog breed) don't rampage around on thier own - people helped them get tothat point, too. There's no point trying to argue that you can pin this blame on just one thing or the other.

 

[Iowa Roo Mom]

I don't think some of you realize how ridiculous you sound. Here, let me toss out some statistics and scenarios for you to help you understand what you sound like:


13,636 murders were committed in 2009.

Of the offenders for whom gender was known, 89.7 percent were males. ALL MALES HAVE BAD GENES, when in reality, anyone has the potential to kill; man, woman, or child.

Of the offenders for whom race was known, 51.6 percent were black, 46.3 percent were white, ALL BLACK AND WHITE PEOPLE HAVE BAD GENES, when in reality, anyone has the potential to kill; white, black, brown, red, or green.

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WHEW! I really tried hard to stay out of this thread, I bit my tongue so hard it felt like it was going to fall off. But, while ignorance is bliss to some, to others it is just outrageous. Leave my pit bull alone and I will not ask you to take your beautiful, neatly groomed yorkie out to hunt rats from my barn.

 

[carolinagirl58]

I have a pit bull who has a VERY strong prey drive. But her drive to please us is even stronger. She is 6 years old and we got chickens this year. She had never seen on in her life prior to this year. When they got big enough to free range, I brought one into the yard. Of course Bailey wanted to catch and eat it.....until we scolded her and told her to leave them alone. That ONE single time, she wanted a chicken but as soon as we told her to leave them alone, she has not so much as even glanced at one. they are walking all around the yard and she does not bother them. She was the same way when we brought goats home a few years ago, and with the sheep this year. I don't know many dogs who are that intent on pleasing their owners.

 

[lasergrl]

That is comparing apples to oranges and another example of humanising animals.

People havent been selectivly bred over many generations for a purpose.
If they were then i would say that yes they are likely to be that way. Many mental problems in humans are genetic but again apples to oranges.


There is no denial in other breeds like there is with this one. Yes, nature and nurture. But dont ignore the nature part. Im not bashing pits at all. I like them. But they are what they are and thats why people like them!

this breed is bred to have game. Your dog may very likely never express it in a negative manner, but it it does you BETTER know what to do and how to handle it instead of standing in a puddle of denial. That is what is fair to the breed. If you have never seen "game" in action youtube pitbulls boar hunting. Its superb to watch them hunt down a boar.
Every breed has certain traits that are known. That is why people like x breed. It has always struck me funny that the only ones that deny this are pit fanatics. They just cant seem to wrap their minds around the fact that yes some pits are capable of being an aggressive animal on its own accord. i feel bad for the good people that have pitts that just descide to kill them. Maybe they were breaking up a dog fight, or getting in the middle of a frenzy the dog is having while mail man walks by. who knows. They still do what they do sometimes and it isnt always a matter of "raising them right" is all. Then everyone blames these people as they must have raised them wrong
Any breed for sure there will be man biters. They arent to be tolerated in any breed. Its just sad when these man biters have game because you dont stand a chance. And like with any breed people will try and train the biting out of them and that is their perogative but once a dog bites someone without reasonable cause, I certainly wouldnt be keeping them around.
Non of this applies to people with a couch potato lap pit, just the people that think they can rehab the ones of a certain temperment. Not every dog can and should be rehabilitated no matter what the breed.
I work with a gal that had her pointer finger bit off by her pit and she still keeps that dog alive. Now I am not sure I worry that much about her because that dog doesnt have game or she would have been dead the first time. Just an example of how some people will ignore warnings. This could end up very bad for other pit owners if she doesnt wake up. And its a shame because yes the bad apples do make the bunch look bad.

I just want people to be responsible with their animals so everyone doesnt lose in the long run.

 

[86121]

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Or a combination of that and their genetic make up. Both factor into temperment in all species.

Agreed! I am a firm believer in genetics playing a major role in an animals, or even a humans, life.
Sometimes life just makes a bad egg and sadly no one can do anything about it...