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The folks at the Livery in Ramona are OK with this, too...
The folks at the Livery in Ramona are OK with this, too...
San Diego Chicken meetup and Chat thread
- Thread starter tigerrrrrrrlilly
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Alfalfa pellets are a ground up version of alfalfa with other things added to make them a more "complete" diet for horses and other livestock.
What you want is Alfalfa bale, find the most green leafy stuff you can get.
They will eat bermuda too (that's the grass-like stuff you've probably seen here in with the rabbits) and mine do, but they prefer Alfalfa leaves, and alfalfa is much more nutritious.
Info I found on hay:
Alfalfa pellets are a ground up version of alfalfa with other things added to make them a more "complete" diet for horses and other livestock.
What you want is Alfalfa bale, find the most green leafy stuff you can get.
They will eat bermuda too (that's the grass-like stuff you've probably seen here in with the rabbits) and mine do, but they prefer Alfalfa leaves, and alfalfa is much more nutritious.
Info I found on hay:
First cut hay is coarse, with a lot of grasses and don't have a lot of legumes such as alfalfa, clover... It dries quicker, It may have quack grass, timothy, brome. It may be weedy too so watch out. (more fiber= better for horses).
2nd cut hay is very rich in nuturients. It is greener than the 1st cut. It smells sweeter than the 1st cut as well. You have to rake this crop of hay more than the 1st cut because it is heavier and thicker. Also it is more likely to rot if you bale wet or catch fire so you have to make sure it is dry before you bale. I had a couple of friends that had the fire problem because of the hay that ignited in the mow. Also another sign that its wet, its really heavy to lift which may mean to open up the bale and let it dry some more. You can sometimes feel the heat building up in the bale.
3rd cut hay is really, really thick and green. It has a really sweet smell to it and his harder to dry but it has a lot of legumes and less grass which may be harder for the horses to digest. Its too rich for horses and I won't recommend the horses to eat 3rd cut because it may get founder. But this one is good for rabbits and chickens.
2nd cut hay is very rich in nuturients. It is greener than the 1st cut. It smells sweeter than the 1st cut as well. You have to rake this crop of hay more than the 1st cut because it is heavier and thicker. Also it is more likely to rot if you bale wet or catch fire so you have to make sure it is dry before you bale. I had a couple of friends that had the fire problem because of the hay that ignited in the mow. Also another sign that its wet, its really heavy to lift which may mean to open up the bale and let it dry some more. You can sometimes feel the heat building up in the bale.
3rd cut hay is really, really thick and green. It has a really sweet smell to it and his harder to dry but it has a lot of legumes and less grass which may be harder for the horses to digest. Its too rich for horses and I won't recommend the horses to eat 3rd cut because it may get founder. But this one is good for rabbits and chickens.
First cut alfalfa hay has the reputation of having large tough stems, but this is only true if the hay was too mature when cut. If first cut hay is mowed at the pre-bloom stage, the stems will not be coarse and the nutritive value will be high. Weeds do tend to appear in first-cut hay.
Second cut alfalfa hay is usually the fastest growing because it is developing during the hottest part of the season, and it usually has more stem in relation to leaf. Of all cuttings, second cut tends to be the lowest in crude protein, but its 16 percent average is adequate for all classes of horses.
Third (and later) cut alfalfa, develops a higher leaf to stem ratio because of the slower growth during the cool part of the season. Therefore, third cut hay will usually have the highest nutritive value. Horses which are not accustomed to a good, leafy hay may experience flatulent (gaseous) colic or a loose stool.
Second cut alfalfa hay is usually the fastest growing because it is developing during the hottest part of the season, and it usually has more stem in relation to leaf. Of all cuttings, second cut tends to be the lowest in crude protein, but its 16 percent average is adequate for all classes of horses.
Third (and later) cut alfalfa, develops a higher leaf to stem ratio because of the slower growth during the cool part of the season. Therefore, third cut hay will usually have the highest nutritive value. Horses which are not accustomed to a good, leafy hay may experience flatulent (gaseous) colic or a loose stool.
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I don't think any chickens will eat enough to make a difference, but alfalfa - especially what's grown out here in the Imperial Valley - is very high in calcium. I strictly limit the alfalfa that I give to my horses as it has the potential to cause enteroliths/stones in the stomach. (Mine are a susceptible breed.) Bermuda is 95% percent of their diet, but they LOVE the alfalfa - it's like horse crack.
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I CAN NOT BELIEVE 20 $ for a bale of anything !!! Is that what they charge around SD/Escondido area ? WoW Of course I have not bought a bale of anything around here lately but last year it certainly was not 20 $
So far it hasnt hit 25 a bale as was predicted..... so thats good. I go through twelve bales of bermuda and three bales of alfalfa a month. Horse eats two bales in five days goats eat one bale a week and a half. Its the time of the year. Winter always brings the prices up. then add to that the drought alot of the other states are dealing with.
I CAN NOT BELIEVE 20 $ for a bale of anything !!! Is that what they charge around SD/Escondido area ? WoW Of course I have not bought a bale of anything around here lately but last year it certainly was not 20 $
So far it hasnt hit 25 a bale as was predicted..... so thats good. I go through twelve bales of bermuda and three bales of alfalfa a month. Horse eats two bales in five days goats eat one bale a week and a half. Its the time of the year. Winter always brings the prices up. then add to that the drought alot of the other states are dealing with.
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Green and very hard. it will have a leaf that looks like part of a clover leaf. The crumbs for those will be on the ground. Sometimes they get a bale that accidentally breaks open and they will sell that by the flake. For rabbit people.... tell them you want alfalfa chaff.
deb
Green and very hard. it will have a leaf that looks like part of a clover leaf. The crumbs for those will be on the ground. Sometimes they get a bale that accidentally breaks open and they will sell that by the flake. For rabbit people.... tell them you want alfalfa chaff.
deb
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I don't know either!
I just look and point at the greenest, leafiest bale and say that one, please! Never tried grass, have used straw to line coops prone to getting wet-they do not eat straw at all. Just walk on top, maybe scratch around a little bit in.
I like the more loosely packed hay, only because it falls apart easier- great for the birds to scratch or tug apart. If I get a really compacted hay bale, I loosen it up by hand.
My knowledge/experience doesn't extend beyond that..
p.s. thanks for the info, KKH. Why are some alfalfa hay more loosely packed, others packed so hard, almost need a chainsaw to get flakes off them? Also what's the difference between first cut, second cut etc? I have noticed some bales had big green leaves(the birds clearly like these the best), and some with tiny leaves.. does that have to do with the "cuts"?
It depends on the baler on how tight its packed as well as the moisture content of the hay. Right now i am seeing in the feed stores two offerings for Alfalfa Heavy at 125 lbs a bale and light at 110 lbs a bale. First cutting is just as it says the first cutting for that growing season. In imperial county they should be getting between eight and ten cuttings per year. Just like mowing grass as it grows they cut it and bale it. The difference between the cuttings is the actual plant growing it is getting older and more depleted, loosing nutritional value. That being said. First cutting is almost never sold for horse consumption because its too rich. If it is it has to be carefully handled. Here for horses usually third cutting is when we get into good feed for horses and it is good for horses from then on even in the depleted state. Alfalfa is a complete feed for horses providing 100 percent of the nutritional needs with the exception of salt. That being said. It is not necessary for all horses. Dietary requirements change according to: Breed, health, physical activity, allergies, ..... and on.
Entrolyth formation for some is caused by a range of factors..... I know I had a mare die from a ten pound entrolyth. For those who don't know Entrolyths are a stone like growth that the body coats with calcium around an irritant. They are formed in the gut and usually get passed along with manure when they get large enough. Sometimes causing colic in the process. Some horses are sensitive to irritants and create quite a few entrolyths. If you find an entrolyth with a flat side on it there will be more..... I dont feed Alfalfa because my mare gets too fluffy..... LOL.
Alfalfa pellets are created by grinding up the alfalfa and mixing with a binding agent like molasses then pressed through an extruder the process actually gets the pellet so hot its cooked then knifes come along and snip the extrusion into the proper length of pellet. Then as the pellet travels along its conveyance it cools and hardens. Dog food Catfood even Cheetos are made this way.
so much for my Mr Wizard impersonation..... LOL.
deb
I don't know either!
I like the more loosely packed hay, only because it falls apart easier- great for the birds to scratch or tug apart. If I get a really compacted hay bale, I loosen it up by hand.
My knowledge/experience doesn't extend beyond that..
p.s. thanks for the info, KKH. Why are some alfalfa hay more loosely packed, others packed so hard, almost need a chainsaw to get flakes off them? Also what's the difference between first cut, second cut etc? I have noticed some bales had big green leaves(the birds clearly like these the best), and some with tiny leaves.. does that have to do with the "cuts"?
It depends on the baler on how tight its packed as well as the moisture content of the hay. Right now i am seeing in the feed stores two offerings for Alfalfa Heavy at 125 lbs a bale and light at 110 lbs a bale. First cutting is just as it says the first cutting for that growing season. In imperial county they should be getting between eight and ten cuttings per year. Just like mowing grass as it grows they cut it and bale it. The difference between the cuttings is the actual plant growing it is getting older and more depleted, loosing nutritional value. That being said. First cutting is almost never sold for horse consumption because its too rich. If it is it has to be carefully handled. Here for horses usually third cutting is when we get into good feed for horses and it is good for horses from then on even in the depleted state. Alfalfa is a complete feed for horses providing 100 percent of the nutritional needs with the exception of salt. That being said. It is not necessary for all horses. Dietary requirements change according to: Breed, health, physical activity, allergies, ..... and on.
Entrolyth formation for some is caused by a range of factors..... I know I had a mare die from a ten pound entrolyth. For those who don't know Entrolyths are a stone like growth that the body coats with calcium around an irritant. They are formed in the gut and usually get passed along with manure when they get large enough. Sometimes causing colic in the process. Some horses are sensitive to irritants and create quite a few entrolyths. If you find an entrolyth with a flat side on it there will be more..... I dont feed Alfalfa because my mare gets too fluffy..... LOL.
Alfalfa pellets are created by grinding up the alfalfa and mixing with a binding agent like molasses then pressed through an extruder the process actually gets the pellet so hot its cooked then knifes come along and snip the extrusion into the proper length of pellet. Then as the pellet travels along its conveyance it cools and hardens. Dog food Catfood even Cheetos are made this way.
so much for my Mr Wizard impersonation..... LOL.
deb
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Its all dried to a certain percentage of moisture prior to baling I seem to remember 15%. Any higher moisture content and the bales will spontaneously combust before it gets to the consumer. Or rot.
Its all dried to a certain percentage of moisture prior to baling I seem to remember 15%. Any higher moisture content and the bales will spontaneously combust before it gets to the consumer. Or rot.
Wow, thanks for the excellent information about alfalfa & hay bales.
I didn't realize horse ownership could be so complicated.
I didn't realize horse ownership could be so complicated.
perchie.girl :
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Its all dried to a certain percentage of moisture prior to baling I seem to remember 15%. Any higher moisture content and the bales will spontaneously combust before it gets to the consumer. Or rot.
I appreciate all the bale information. And regret my cavalier post.
Quote:
Its all dried to a certain percentage of moisture prior to baling I seem to remember 15%. Any higher moisture content and the bales will spontaneously combust before it gets to the consumer. Or rot.
I appreciate all the bale information. And regret my cavalier post.
Hello SDCC~
Just wanted to share with everyone a recent addition to our backyard flock, they arrived this morning. They are going to be kept in the house under quarantine for 2 wks and then out to the backyard. Living in suburbia definately has is downside when it comes to poultry husbandry, etc. But the flip side of that coin, is we get to enjoy the bantam varities.
These are guys are Chibi type Ko Shamo.
The Chibi dwarfs are a bit smaller (@1.5-2 pds) and stocker than the dwarf Ko Shamo (@2-2.5pds)
BTW ~ the colorful structure in the background is our bantam cochin coop. I cant take credit for the designer decorating, I just do the manual labor, the credit goes to my daughter and son.
Just wanted to share with everyone a recent addition to our backyard flock, they arrived this morning. They are going to be kept in the house under quarantine for 2 wks and then out to the backyard. Living in suburbia definately has is downside when it comes to poultry husbandry, etc. But the flip side of that coin, is we get to enjoy the bantam varities.
These are guys are Chibi type Ko Shamo.
The Chibi dwarfs are a bit smaller (@1.5-2 pds) and stocker than the dwarf Ko Shamo (@2-2.5pds)
BTW ~ the colorful structure in the background is our bantam cochin coop. I cant take credit for the designer decorating, I just do the manual labor, the credit goes to my daughter and son.
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