Sand Hill Preservation Center

[alachickenman]

Does anyone know if their hatch days stay the same year to year? Or at least relatively?

 

[ki4got]

pretty sure they hatch to ship out mondays, at least mine were.

 

[capsicum]

I find the apparent lack of economics knowledge in the public at large(including business owners) to be quite discouraging.
If they are busy, personally out of labor, and selling out of product than raise supply by hiring some people and breeding more.(which would also further the preservation goals)
The other option is to raise prices a bit: either to reduce demand to a level they can handle or to increase gross income and allow reinvestment in the project. (hired hands, less day job, automation, a webmaster what ever.)
Generally a business should try to grow just until the dis-economies of scale meet the economies of scale.(dis-economies are related to the old saying: if you want a job done right, do it yourself, and the degradation problem from making copies of copies.[hiring people to hire people, etc.])
An exception to the growth rule would be a business ran just as a retirement hobby.

Really there is no excuse for rude customer service, but slow or non-communication may be excused if they aren't charging for good communication.(ie. low prices)

I work for a co-op company that people tend to view as having high prices, (Not really true, we just happen to carry the good stuff.) what they don't realize though is that our customer service will rock your socks, you get what you pay for. If you are a member with a receipt we have a 100% return policy (a guy returned a 30 year old mountaineering suit a few years ago.) and if you call with a question about the zipper width on a backpack pocket they will have a guy go into the warehouse, find the item, measure it, and call you back promptly. Over 95% of normal size orders are on a truck in less than 16 hours from you clicking 'confirm order'. (The truck may not move if it's a weekend, but that's the carrier.)

 

[BlacksheepCardigans]

I don't know why people keep wanting to turn Sand Hill into Murray McMurray or something. They are not a hatchery. They are breed preservationists. They make very little money and they do this because they care about the breeds. Glenn participates in genetic research studies, he speaks at conferences, he knows genetics and APA standards. You see MM doing anything like that?

Sand Hill is trying to stand at a very important place - think of them like a seed bank. They are trying to create sustainable populations for the long-term health of a breed. They are NOT growing up show birds or promising show results. That's because consistent show results require inbreeding and the loss of genetic diversity and production. Every strategy you've ever read or been told about how to create a show flock is some variation on "inbreed like crazy." When you buy from a proven show breeder, you're paying money for the results of their inbreeding strategy. The production value of an inbred flock is much lower than a diverse flock. The resistance to disease of an inbred flock is much lower than a diverse flock. That's the genetic price you pay for getting consistent show results.

Inbreeding and selecting for feathering and shank color (rather than for hardiness and egg production and egg character) is the opposite of what Sand Hill does, so they're not going to be a source of an instant show flock. They are also NOT providing fad breeds to backyard pet owners who only want cool colors and interesting names and who do not want to know anything about agriculture except where to write a credit card number. That's where MM and the other pet hatcheries come in. And yes, those hatcheries will give you better communication and an instant hatching date. But they pay their phone bank workers by drop-shipping you birds who are genetically close to useless (except, honestly, their EEs, which seem to be from a very old flock and are probably the best thing from a sustainability perspective that MM sells) and I know they're culling chicks like crazy so they can have enough for those instant orders.

I've waited for those phone calls from Linda too - though they've been VERY good about calling me when the chicks have shipped. I've never not been alerted 2-3 days in advance. I don't like having to write a check and lick a stamp either. But it's always been more than worth it when the box comes and the chicks look like actual breeds and grow up to lay and act like actual breeds.

 

[NYREDS]

I don't know why people keep wanting to turn Sand Hill into Murray McMurray or something. They are not a hatchery. They are breed preservationists. They make very little money and they do this because they care about the breeds. Glenn participates in genetic research studies, he speaks at conferences, he knows genetics and APA standards. You see MM doing anything like that?

Sand Hill is trying to stand at a very important place - think of them like a seed bank. They are trying to create sustainable populations for the long-term health of a breed. They are NOT growing up show birds or promising show results. That's because consistent show results require inbreeding and the loss of genetic diversity and production. Every strategy you've ever read or been told about how to create a show flock is some variation on "inbreed like crazy." When you buy from a proven show breeder, you're paying money for the results of their inbreeding strategy. The production value of an inbred flock is much lower than a diverse flock. The resistance to disease of an inbred flock is much lower than a diverse flock. That's the genetic price you pay for getting consistent show results.

Inbreeding and selecting for feathering and shank color (rather than for hardiness and egg production and egg character) is the opposite of what Sand Hill does, so they're not going to be a source of an instant show flock. They are also NOT providing fad breeds to backyard pet owners who only want cool colors and interesting names and who do not want to know anything about agriculture except where to write a credit card number. That's where MM and the other pet hatcheries come in. And yes, those hatcheries will give you better communication and an instant hatching date. But they pay their phone bank workers by drop-shipping you birds who are genetically close to useless (except, honestly, their EEs, which seem to be from a very old flock and are probably the best thing from a sustainability perspective that MM sells) and I know they're culling chicks like crazy so they can have enough for those instant orders.

I've waited for those phone calls from Linda too - though they've been VERY good about calling me when the chicks have shipped. I've never not been alerted 2-3 days in advance. I don't like having to write a check and lick a stamp either. But it's always been more than worth it when the box comes and the chicks look like actual breeds and grow up to lay and act like actual breeds.

Well said.

 

[Countrypunk92]

My friend ordered early this year and still havent gotten his order. they would tell him its sent or the date they are supposed to hatch, and then not hear from them for a month. then say the same crap. Policies or not. if you can't keep up with their orders, they should not take them. that goes with replying to email, or phone calls.

 

[Countrypunk92]

and to Blacksheep,
Although you are correct by alot of the points you gave, Hatcheries do not try to advertise and trick people into thinking their birds are great, or A.P.A.
THEY ARE NOT USELESS! most are bred for production and quanities. not for great quality birds, there is nothing wrong with a hatchery bird if its a pet, layer, or food. And there is good use to "mutts" to.

And even though alot of breeders just breed for show( and some inbreed[ brother,sister]) and do not breed for productivity, There is several breeders who both, breed for productivity, and to the standard, and line breed. yes it is mating with parent stock, but it is to control and better the lines. Adding a new line can harm the line, as the other breeder is breeding to his critique and can damage the good qualities in your line. I do believe you should add new blood every now and then, but if you would need to keep it in the same lines.

For one example, me and a friend have been buying stock from Foley's Waterfowl, we plan to keep preserving the standard, and try to make it better. we plan to exchange eggs so we will have new blood, but keep the same line.

I do understand about most Show breeders, I find most of them JUST care about having the BEST, and WINNING shows, other then actually maintaining the breed, as most are bigger, or fluffier then the standard. Many I have met doesnt really show a bond between their birds.Or show any interest in other people's birds. Me, personally live for my birds. I find them more then food, or animals. it gives me more motivation to keep spending my time breeding, and preserving the breed standard, and make everyone happy who wants any of my birds. I have never had an aggressive rooster because I do not just throw them around, or just throw in feed and never socialize. yes, some have names and such, but some have more prominent personalities. there is nothing wrong with a pet chicken.

 

[uphilljill]

I ordered from them as soon as their catalog was released in October 2011 for Spring 2012 chicks to make sure I was high on the waiting list, left my delivery dates flexible, and allowed substitutions, but still had no luck filling the order. In fairness, I did I order some fairly hard-to-find chicks (BLRW and SG Dorkings) as well as a separate order of Bourbon Red turkey poults and guinea keets. I expected some part of the order to be unfilled or substituted (allowing for a poor hatch, high demand, etc.) but was a little surprised that neither order was able to be filled. Since I did not receive chicks, I can't speak to shipping or quality of birds.

As much as I like their philosophy and try to support mom & pop businesses, I have to agree with others here... Communication is very poor. They do not respond to email (inconvenient in this day & age), or update you about your order in any way other than to let you know it has been received. If they miss the preferred shipping dates, you have no way of knowing when/if the order can be filled later in the season. When I called at the end of the season (August 2012) about my refund, I got the voicemail and no return call, but they did respond via snail mail promptly with a nice note and a full refund, no problems.

 

[smartcute]

I have to say I think they are great. You don't order from them if you want certain birds at a certain time. They are farmers, and 'stuff' happens when you farm. You lose birds for bizarre reasons (I think one year they had issues because of extreme heat), hens don't lay when it's still cold in April, etc...My experience with them is that they do the best they can and what you do get from them is good, 'typey' stock. They've always been pleasant when we've talked on the phone, and they prefer snailmail to communicate. And when I want Scots Dumpy's or Mille Fleur leghorns or Mahogany Faverolles,, I'll wait for some from Sand Hill!

 

[showmesilkies]

Did you get your Brabanters from them? I'd love to see pics. Never seen any Brabanters that came from SHP.