Saving shells for color comparison...

[Tiegrsi]

I hope this is the right forum for this question...

I've looked around a bit and I see lots of great information on genetics and the roles of genes in egg color. I see a lot of people breeding specifically FOR egg color. Before I started breeding my Black Coppers, I knew I wanted to breed for correctness of the birds, but not lose the depth of color in the egg if I could avoid it. I thought for a long time about how to keep up with everything so that I could create a good breeding program that would benefit the breed, and decided that I would need to keep a paper record, as well as a physical record of the birds and their eggs.

So I have saved eggshells from my hatches, hoping that I could compare mother's egg to daughter's, and use that to determine if the rooster I was using in the mating lent more or less color to the daughter's egg.

The problem is, I've noticed that over time, the eggshells I've saved are losing color. Is there a way to prevent this? Does anyone else save the shells to keep a record in a similar way? Is there a better way to store them? (I just have them in a carton stored out of the light.)

 

[R2elk]

I hope this is the right forum for this question...

I've looked around a bit and I see lots of great information on genetics and the roles of genes in egg color. I see a lot of people breeding specifically FOR egg color. Before I started breeding my Black Coppers, I knew I wanted to breed for correctness of the birds, but not lose the depth of color in the egg if I could avoid it. I thought for a long time about how to keep up with everything so that I could create a good breeding program that would benefit the breed, and decided that I would need to keep a paper record, as well as a physical record of the birds and their eggs.

So I have saved eggshells from my hatches, hoping that I could compare mother's egg to daughter's, and use that to determine if the rooster I was using in the mating lent more or less color to the daughter's egg.

The problem is, I've noticed that over time, the eggshells I've saved are losing color. Is there a way to prevent this? Does anyone else save the shells to keep a record in a similar way? Is there a better way to store them? (I just have them in a carton stored out of the light.)

Take a good photo of the egg at the time it was collected and save the photos rather than the eggs. You can use an image editor to add text to the photo for identification purposes.

 

[Tiegrsi]

I save photos, as well, but differences in lighting/cameras/etc make it difficult to keep a good record that way. Thank you for the reply, though!

 

[Cyneswith]

Photograph on a medium matte gray backdrop - same one every time, stored in a dark, dry place. Adjust photos on computer so that backdrop is the same color, to account for lighting issues.

 

[Tiegrsi]

Cyneswith - good idea! Thank you. I didn't think to adjust the background to the same color to solve that problem! I have a pretty crappy camera and it's so hard, even on the same settings in the same place, to get the lighting exact.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I hope this is the right forum for this question...

I've looked around a bit and I see lots of great information on genetics and the roles of genes in egg color. I see a lot of people breeding specifically FOR egg color. Before I started breeding my Black Coppers, I knew I wanted to breed for correctness of the birds, but not lose the depth of color in the egg if I could avoid it. I thought for a long time about how to keep up with everything so that I could create a good breeding program that would benefit the breed, and decided that I would need to keep a paper record, as well as a physical record of the birds and their eggs.

So I have saved eggshells from my hatches, hoping that I could compare mother's egg to daughter's, and use that to determine if the rooster I was using in the mating lent more or less color to the daughter's egg.

The problem is, I've noticed that over time, the eggshells I've saved are losing color. Is there a way to prevent this? Does anyone else save the shells to keep a record in a similar way? Is there a better way to store them? (I just have them in a carton stored out of the light.)

I also breed FBCM... and I would say part of your issue is... that the egg color isn't consistent throughout the season. When people say they ONLY hatch from the "darkest" egg, it cracks me up because the current color doesn't mean it's equal to what the bird is capable of producing and the genetics will be the same if it's from the same hen whether it's her darkest or lightest egg of the season.

I wonder if you crush/ vacuum seal with one of those seal a meal type things if it will stop the oxidation/degradation of the color? We have done this with some garden herbs and it made a tremendous difference in their preservation. Ones store in vacuum were nice and green where as ones stored in standard zip lock bags were brown.

Also... I might suggest making the collection comparison be like the 20th pullet egg or something like that since they say you can't judge true color at the very beginning. Once you get your line along though... you will already know which cocks come from which hens and which you should keep accordingly.

My only other suggestion would be marking down you number on the Marans' egg color scale and simply using that as you record. You might use descriptions like light/medium/dark, 5/6/7.. so you have an idea not just of number but depth and set yourself up a place with a light and a print out of the scale that you use in the same location so you control the variables to the best of your ability.

Glad to see another person TRYING to do it right! Thanks for sharing your ideas.

 

[Tiegrsi]

I also breed FBCM... and I would say part of your issue is... that the egg color isn't consistent throughout the season. When people say they ONLY hatch from the "darkest" egg, it cracks me up because the current color doesn't mean it's equal to what the bird is capable of producing and the genetics will be the same if it's from the same hen whether it's her darkest or lightest egg of the season.

I wonder if you crush/ vacuum seal with one of those seal a meal type things if it will stop the oxidation/degradation of the color? We have done this with some garden herbs and it made a tremendous difference in their preservation. Ones store in vacuum were nice and green where as ones stored in standard zip lock bags were brown.

Also... I might suggest making the collection comparison be like the 20th pullet egg or something like that since they say you can't judge true color at the very beginning. Once you get your line along though... you will already know which cocks come from which hens and which you should keep accordingly.

My only other suggestion would be marking down you number on the Marans' egg color scale and simply using that as you record. You might use descriptions like light/medium/dark, 5/6/7.. so you have an idea not just of number but depth and set yourself up a place with a light and a print out of the scale that you use in the same location so you control the variables to the best of your ability.

Glad to see another person TRYING to do it right! Thanks for sharing your ideas.

I was thinking about vacuum sealing...that would make it easier to store AND to label. Thank you!

Also, that's a great point about the color differences. My eldest hens were laying 7-8 when they were pullets. Now, at a year and a half, their eggs have lightened to a 5-6. They are just finishing up molt, so I am interested in seeing what color their eggs will be once that is finished, as I've read that molting kind of "re-sets" their color.

Yes...the cock birds I have now I purchased as chicks, so I didn't know the exact color of their eggs or the eggs of their father(s). Once I have 2 generations hatched here, I will no longer need this system for the cocks, unless I bring in new blood (which I will likely do at some point). I would still like to keep a record of the pullets and hens, though, just for reference and as it might help others in the future to better estimate how much color can be added or lost in a single generation.

 

[ChicKat]

I hope this is the right forum for this question...

I've looked around a bit and I see lots of great information on genetics and the roles of genes in egg color. I see a lot of people breeding specifically FOR egg color. Before I started breeding my Black Coppers, I knew I wanted to breed for correctness of the birds, but not lose the depth of color in the egg if I could avoid it. I thought for a long time about how to keep up with everything so that I could create a good breeding program that would benefit the breed, and decided that I would need to keep a paper record, as well as a physical record of the birds and their eggs.

So I have saved eggshells from my hatches, hoping that I could compare mother's egg to daughter's, and use that to determine if the rooster I was using in the mating lent more or less color to the daughter's egg.

The problem is, I've noticed that over time, the eggshells I've saved are losing color. Is there a way to prevent this? Does anyone else save the shells to keep a record in a similar way? Is there a better way to store them? (I just have them in a carton stored out of the light.)

That's a really good idea!
There is an app for Android phone that I use.... it is "Color Detector by Mobialia". I wonder if it is still available in the Android store.

When you bring it up, you have your phone screen with a yellow circle in the center. Put the circle over the color you want to analyze and touch anywhere on the screen. You will have your phone name a color -- and then give you the hex number of that color, the percent of Red-Green-Blue and other information about your color.

Your post about the differences in camera, lighting, equipment, computer screen, the particular software you would bring it up in etc, if it is calibrated or not...etc.... are all variables in the appearance. Also because light travels in waves, the exact second you touch the screen will capture a part of the wave and there could be variations. You would want to take the picture a couple of times -- and of course the lighting -- north light, sun, shade, indoors and outdoors affect the color that the equipment would record. Add to that people's eyes and brain perceive color differently.

Since you are using it for your own records, it could be that you could set up a 'light box' so you always had the same lighting and background and get some good comparisons.


It isn't perfect, but I find it useful for my eggs. Especially if you are trying to tell someone elsewhere what a color IS. --

Today I got a BIG Cream Legbar egg--- such a lot of controversy swirled about the color of CL eggs some years back...it's almost amusing. This egg looked like a nice solid blue -- so I color detected it.

There is a second step -- I will write after this one.
"Regent St. Blue" Hex number is #90C8D9
RGB percentage is R58% G78% B88% - incidentally this was taken in the shade on the north west side of the house.
H194o S34% V84 [That's 194-degrees, but this editor doesn't have a superscript]

Then for you to see the color -- I go to a computer page that shows hex colors...and enter the hex number at the top:
www.color-hex.com
Here it is with my 90c8d9
http://www.color-hex.com/color/90c8d9
isn't that a beautiful color?
Then I refer to the number at the bottom of that phone screen by the S -- which I interpret as the saturation of the color displayed and the true color of my egg:
On the line on the hex color page -- I go to the row that is the tints...because quite obviously the chicken egg isn't as saturated as the wave length the app captured, and I count from the right (which is white or hex #ffffff as shown) -- and count 3 to the left for the 34% -- and the color of my egg is between the third and 4th swatch on that row. Now you can see my egg color (or at least a reasonable facsimile ) even where you are. Of course it isn't EXACT. But it is the closest that I've seen to being able to talk about eggshell color.

For those of us with blue layers, a really important key is the percentage of blue versus green. Often they are the same percent in the egg. This egg is recording 10% more blue than green. I'm pretty pleased.

 

[Tiegrsi]

Wow, Chickat! That's really awesome! I don't have a phone that's capable of using an ap like that right now, but next year I will hopefully be getting a better phone, and I will keep that in mind!

 

[ZurcherFarms]

I've never used an app like that on my phone before, but I've compared shells to paint color swatches at the store. They have the same lighting there.

We actually have a Contractor color swatches deck from Sherwin Williams, with cards of every color there, so it's easy to flip through and find the color comparison. I believe you get their deck free if you set up a Contractor account, otherwise you can buy one.