Searching for good quality, heritage chick breeders

[trenace]

I understand that many care about color pattern and comb etc being exactly as per a book: that is a fine and interesting pursuit no doubt. As for myself I am interested in value as a productive bird in my environment. Thus, for example, I want Andalusians that are not the product of 30 or more generations in chick-mill hatcheries.

To me, chicks that are the product of dozens of prior generations where running ability, as one of many qualities, simply didn't matter to selection is likely a completely unsuitable base to "start" with when one is looking precisely for the survival skills that the actual heritage birds had. And I'm not looking to "start with" but not actually have, e.g. I don't want a mystery-meat "Andalusian" that has no descent from the actual, if it doesn't. Chicken breeding is enough of a challenge starting with good and culling hard -- I do not want to start with faux and poor.

To some, their own example or "re-creation" of a breed can be produced from any sort of cross that yields conformance to the SOP. To me that is not the same breed: it is a look-alike that is unlikely to perform alike especially in a free-range situation and in any case does not preserve the genetics of the breed.

It's not "because it's the home country," it's because of what there is in America right now.

Also in some cases, the genetic bottleneck is severe in the U.S , and while again being the home country is itself irrelevant, sometimes that's where the birds are if wanting to overcome the limitation in the U.S.

I had hoped that since the advice to import eggs was given as if that were a routine thing to do, it would be explained how to do so in a routine way, though I thought that wasn't the case. I could have been wrong, one can always learn.

Thank you for your response.

 

[dheltzel]

I understand that many care about color pattern and comb etc being exactly as per a book: that is a fine and interesting pursuit no doubt. As for myself I am interested in value as a productive bird in my environment. Thus, for example, I want Andalusians that are not the product of 30 more generations in chick-mill hatcheries.

Getting, for example, chicks that are the product of dozens of prior generations be where running ability simply didn't matter to selection are likely a completely unwilling suitable base to "start" with when one us looking precisely for the survival skills that the actual heritage birds had. And I'm not looking to "start with" but not actually have, e.g. I don't want a mystery-meat "Andalusian" that has no descent from the actual, if it doesn't. Chicken breeding is enough of a challenge starting with good and culling hard -- I do not want to start with faux and poor.

To some, their own example or "re-creation" of a breed can be produced from any sort of cross that yields conformance to the SOP. To me that is not the same breed: it is a look-alike that is unlikely to perform alike especially in a free-range situation and in any case does not preserve the genetics of the breed.

It's not "because it's the home country," its because of what there is in America right now.

Alsi in some cases, the genetic bottleneck is severe in the U.S , and while again being the honest country is itself irrelevant, that's where the birds are if wanting to overcome the limitation in the U.S.

I had hoped that since the advice to import eggs was given as if that were a routine thing to do, it would be explained how to do so in a routine way, though I thought that wasn't the case. I could have been wrong, one can always learn.

Thank you for your response.

Sadly, your observation about hatcheries is all too often the case - but not universally. I do see a trend that way though. This year I bought some New Hampshire chicks from Freedom Ranger Hatchery. They are a line that have been bred for meat production more than egg production, and it shows in their growth rate and temperament. Years ago, I had a show line of NH and while pretty, they were rather unremarkable to me. These chicks are far different than my other breeds. Not as lethargic as Cornish Cross, but I can easily clean their brooder with the top off and the show no inclination to fly out. I will see how they perform as adults, running with bigger birds (geese, turkeys, peafowl). I want a sturdy chicken that lays well and doesn't add to the drama (geese are drama royalty). Are they more true to the original breeding of NH? I suspect so, the whole point of the NH breed was to add heft to the RIR and make a chicken that could be raised for meat. They (along with Delawares) were the backbone of the broiler industry before Cornish x Rocks. If these work out as I hope, I may add Delawares and try the cross for historical reasons.

Many show breeders do try to maintain the proper temperament and other qualities of the breed. For example, years ago I acquired a gorgeous black frizzle cochin bantam cock. I bought some self-blue (lavender) cochin bantam chicks from Ideal Hatchery. Those grew into very poor quality pullets that never got broody at all. Crossed to the black frizzle, then back to recover the lavender gene in the F2's, I started seeing broody pullets very quickly because they black frizzle had genes for broodiness that the hatcheries had bred out.