Second Guessing, Red vs. Green?

[3KillerBs]

As of yesterday, when I saw him dance for one of the ladies, I was sure I would keep Green as my line-sire for the Blue Australorps.

So I went to transfer Red to the bachelor pen and drama ensued.

This morning I got a better look at the two of them side by side and realized that the difference in size is no longer just a few ounces of weight, but that Red is noticeably taller.

Green is much superior in color and lacing and there's something I really like about the shape of his chest. Plus I've seen him dance for the ladies. But I'm second-guessing if Red is really the better bird.

One must go. My goal is not to create a show flock, but to have backyard layers who are reasonable representatives of their breed so that I can sell chicks and started birds without shame.

Both boys popped their combs by 3 weeks and showed clear saddles between 10-11 weeks. Both started crowing a few weeks ago. Neither is a pet. Both move away when I walk toward them but don't freak out.

So far they're peacefully coexisting with Ludwig, the 8-month Black Langshan cockerel. Red seems to be more dominant. I haven't seen any preference among the girls -- the adult hens are unimpressed by either of them and some of the pullets hang around each of them (they're often together anyway).

In these photos Green is the dark one and Red the paler one.

This is probably the best side-by-side. I think you can see what I'm talking about with the chest but you can't see the size difference that's clear in person.

Opinions?

 

[3KillerBs]

I have such a hard time getting good photos of the birds since they're so active, but I thought you'd like to see how Green, now known as Rameses, has turned out.

He's 10 months old and still a perfect gentleman with me and decent with his girls.

That chest has continued to broaden and I think he looks well-balanced overall.

I'm comparing him to the Australian standard since that's online: http://www.openpoultrystandards.com/Australorp

 

[3KillerBs]

If I were in this situation, & had to choose. I'd keep both, breed them, see who produces better offspring repeatedly, & cull the other that's not producing the best offspring.

It's tempting, but I really do have to select only one.

 

[3KillerBs]

You've said that Red is bigger, but how much difference are you talking about? If it's just a little bit, and Green is better in all other respects, I would keep Green.

I don't have current weights. 2 weeks ago it was a couple ounces.

Red is just enough taller to see it live but not enough to be clear in the photos. Green is about as broad across the shoulders though.

I've read here on BYC that Strombergs and Whelp get their birds from Privett in New Mexico.

New Mexico is good for me the same as Ideal in Texas is good for me -- breeding flocks pre-adapted to the heat.

 

[Egghead_Jr]

When you pick up the birds to compare keels also compare their backs. You want the back to be wide entire length not thin at tail. Get hands on and compare the two, you can't rely on visual. The body structure is more important than color. That said if the one with better color is on par with the other then go with the better coloring.

Visually the green banded, darker, bird seems to have a wider tail. But again that can't be confirmed until you get your hands on backs and compare. The lighter, red banded, birds tail feathers are slower to grow in making his hind end look like it V's to shoulders.

 

[3KillerBs]

When you pick up the birds to compare keels also compare their backs. You want the back to be wide entire length not thin at tail. Get hands on and compare the two, you can't rely on visual. The body structure is more important than color. That said if the one with better color is on par with the other then go with the better coloring.

Visually the green banded, darker, bird seems to have a wider tail. But again that can't be confirmed until you get your hands on backs and compare. The lighter, red banded, birds tail feathers are slower to grow in making his hind end look like it V's to shoulders.

I did that just now when I went out to make the move to the bachelor pen.

Red has a sharper keel and an overall bonier feel. I expect he'd grow into those bones eventually, but Green is as wide even though he's shorter. He has a nice, solid feel to him. I could put my whole hand flat over either one's back without running out of bird.

So Red is in the bachelor pen now.

 

[Egghead_Jr]

This article tells you how to hands on evaluate a dual purpose bird. What they are choosing for is fundamental for any of the dual purpose breeds. Wide backs and proper keel. It's the basis for what the Old timers would say "build the barn first then paint it."

http://www.albc-usa.org/documents/ALBCchicken_assessment-1.pdf

 

[MysteryChicken]

If I were in this situation, & had to choose. I'd keep both, breed them, see who produces better offspring repeatedly, & cull the other that's not producing the best offspring.

 

[janiedoe]

I'd like to point out (from my experience, as well as reading ) that lacing on a blue chickens often improves after the first hard molt. I hope thus doesn't make your decision harder.

 

[3KillerBs]

I'd like to point out (from my experience, as well as reading ) that lacing on a blue chickens often improves after the first hard molt. I hope thus doesn't make your decision harder.

I'll keep that in mind while selecting the girls.

It really got me thinking when I realized that Green has better coloring than the hatchery catalog photos.

I keep coming back to the fullness of Green's chest -- though I ought to feel keelbones tonight when I'm closing them up and throwing them out of the nestboxes to make sure it's not just feathers -- I'm 90% sure of it, because I handle them every night, but I can do it more purposefully.