Seramas-do you really know what a Serama is???

[pamperedpoultry]

 

[High Roost Ranch]

I realize that some people might not have true Seramas, do try to cheat people and its wrong of them to lie just for the money. I definitely applaud each of the breeders trying to improve on the breeds.

But I have a question about the statement 'A serama is a living work of art. Anything less than that and you just have a bantam chicken'. I have watched a lot of the Serama breeders sell their culls on here. Most of which have faults, so they are not kept for breeding...too long in the back, wings not quite right, a little large, etc. They don't charge as high of prices for these birds as they do their more 'perfect' stock, of course. But how come the breeders of those birds still considered them Seramas, but the ones we have that aren't perfect either are merely bantams?

Many people selling their Seramas on here, have bought eggs, culls or what they could afford from respected breeders and then sell their own chicks. Resulting in many of us not getting those perfect, chesty, tiny 'works of art'. While I am sure everyone would love to have the most perfect Seramas in the world, is it fair to make us feel bad for not having them? Or to say we don't have Seramas at all?

I think that is where BYC is having a problem and why you are being kept from correcting people. While it is great to educate people, there is a wrong and right way to do it. Making others feel bad just so you can feel better about what you have, is not the correct way. I'm really not trying to get on anyones bad side here, but you have to stop and see things from other points of view.

That being said...I love so many of the Seramas I have seen on the 'real' breeders websites here and would give anything to have any of them. But I also love the little imperfect Seramas I own and they are still Seramas. Just like my huge Golden Retriever was every bit a Golden Retriever, even though I bought him from a Menonite family for $300 and didn't pay $2000 for him from an AKC breeder w/ papers.

Good points and I'm glad you brought them up.

First off, I am not trying to make ANYONE feel bad about their birds. That was never my intention. I was however addressing someone who knowingly was advertising (whether they were selling them or not) an untruth, or a farce. I didn't want to see anyone shammed by something that I highly doubt existed or was possible.

As with all breeds of poultry, and beyond that with dogs, cats, horses, cattle, hogs, the list goes on, there are those that are breeding quality and those that are pet or cull quality. I am not saying, don't buy a cull. But if you buy a serama, know what it is you're buying. It would be great if all the culls had homes verses having a permanent kink put in their neck. But what I am saying, or asking, is that the culls not be used for breeding unless the one using them is greatly versed in the purpose of how to use them correctly. I started out with culls. I started out with birds that didn't look anything like what I've bred up to today. It's long and hard work. Every day there are culls produced by even the best champion animal, a lot of it lays in the hands of Mother Nature, we just try to remove all the undesirable possibilities by streamlining the desirable genetics to increase the chance of yet another champion quality bird being produced.

The seramas that I am referring to in the article are those birds that are NOT a representative of the Serama breed, but instead of a different breed, such as OEGB, Japs, Dutch, etc.

There is NO perfect Serama. Nor do I believe there will probably be one in my lifetime. I say this for two reasons. First, the breed is not set yet. There are too many factors when breeding seramas to say that the perfect bird is in the next generation. Secondly, Seramas are a reflection (IMHO) of the individual breeder, within reason. Historically, seramas are seen in 4 different types (Apple, Ball, Dragon and Slim) and beyond that the combinations of those 4 types. And this is were the "living work of art" comes into play. You can have 4 birds, just slightly different in the 4 different types, that are all a living work of art. It happens every day in Malaysia. Refer to their birds and you see a wide range of types being exhibited and heralded over there. The one key they have going on in all those types is "extreme" examples. Here in the USA, most of our birds are not extreme, even far from it.

So I am not telling anyone don't keep your seramas, just chose wisely please when you decide to breed to help the breed grow in the right direction, and to better understand what a serama is.

And I know you love your Golden Retriever (great breed by the way!) just as I've loved my pet quality dogs in the past. But you more than likely didn't buy champion material, you bought pet quality. Yes, it's still a golden, but a pet golden, not one used to further the breed. AND... that is a set breed, one that's been in existence for a long time. Breed two goldens together and you'll get an array of golden quality-pet, breeder & show quality.

Unfortunately, with seramas, breeding two birds together will not always get you birds looking like seramas. Again, if they look like any other breed (and believe it or not that's not that difficult to have that happen if you don't choose your breeders wisely), you don't necessarily get seramas. They have to not only look like seramas, but they have to act like a serama. I have birds here that are always in pose, always giving me that living work of art attitude. I've had culls that were the exact opposite.

I hope I've explained better what the point of my article was about. Again, my intention is to NEVER hurt someone's feelings, or discount the worth of their bird as a pet. As with any breed though, there are those worthy of the breed pen and those that aren't. I'm trying to enlighten others on which category their birds belong in.

Now, can I please have some of that popcorn? My stomach's growling, LOL.

With all sincerity,
Julie​

 

[High Roost Ranch]

I forgot to add in that since the breed is so new yet, that it's very easy for say, a throwback if you will, to be produced. A bird with heavy chabo characteristics for example. Another would be the featherlegged gene that pops up occasionally, a trait from the ancestors, and low and behold, wow, two hidden genes got together and surprise, those champion birds representative of the standard enough to look like seramas as we perceive them to be just produced something that doesn't look like a serama because of the feather stubs. Any time you have a new breed in the making, it's ancestors pop up and surprise you. While it gives us an idea of what's in their ancestoral makeup, it's disappointing when you think you've come so far and then Mother Nature and her genes toss one at you from way back in the creation of these birds.

Pomeranians for example... originated from a Norwegian sled dog much larger than what the standard today calls for. Every now and then, surprise! a big pup is produced. Those hidden genes snuck in and gave a surprise. Imagine how often that happened when Pomeranians, a toy breed, was being created. If they'd continued to use those larger dogs, the breed may never have been set and created into the toy dog breed it is today.

Look to the future. It's important when making a breed, no matter what species it is.

 

[SunAngel]

Thanks a lot for reexplaining your standing. That did help clear a lot up

Is there a great difference between a Japanese, OEGB and a Serama? Or just a fine line of distinction and the location from where they originated? Some of the pics of Japs I see look similar to Seramas and then again, I have seen Seramas that look more like my OEGBs. Obviously its easy to tell a 'work of art' little Serama roo from the rest, but the females are not so easy.

I have a tiny Black-tailed Buff Jap pullet that walks around posed more than many Seramas I have seen. I am actually surprised by her, seeing as she was bought at TSC during chick days. If I didn't research enough to know what she was, I would probably easily mistake her for a Serama. I guess I can see where people not doing their research could find themselves misrepresenting what they have.

In any case...thank you for not taking my questioning or statements the wrong way. I, like many here, are always eager to learn.

 

[DiVon80]

Here is some popcorn! Very well said(HRR)! Its hard to get people to understand what makes some animals better then others.

 

[TurtleFeathers]

Quote:
I wouldn't say "better than" - I'd say "more closely conforms to the standard."

Just my opinion, of course.