Sex- linked Information

[Turk Raphael]

You are correct, I was creating Welbars from Welsummers and Barred Rocks. Before I had a double barred cockerel, I used a single barred cockerel over a barred pullet. Half the males were double barred, and (for the first time since starting the project) easily selected at hatch. But half the pullet chicks were un-barred and I had to raise them a few weeks to determine that. The unbarred pullets were sold as layers and the feedback I got was that they were great birds because the heterosis was still strong in that generation. They didn't quite look like Welsummers, but laid the same dark eggs.

That generation, when the double barred chicks appeared, was the first time I ever had true Welbars in my possession. I am on my 3rd generation since then and they are 100% true breeding and autosexing. Last summer, I put double barred cockerels over my entire flock of Welsummers to produce a lot of pullets. As a side effect, I had a lot of single barred cockerels, which I released on the farm to find their way in the world. Many have survived and they are incredibly beautiful birds. I need to get some pics. It's a shame they don't breed true because I think they are prettier than the double barred cocks, though that is really "in the eye of the beholder".

Anyway, even though the het roos are a genetic undesirable, they are still very nice birds. If you check out Greenfire Farm's FB page, they have posted a few Welbar pics as a teaser for their planned introduction this year. Every cockerel that have pics posted is clearly single barred, I think they find the single barred ones more attractive also. The pullet pics are correct, also single barred, but supposed to be so. I'm fairly certain they did the same thing I did last year and have a bunch of het cockerels running around their farm. Ever notice how the free ranging cocks look so nice compared to the ones in the breeding pens? I think the ones in the pens with the girls sort of "let themselves go", but the ones without a female are always preening -- like teenage boys

I resent that sexist remark!!! I believe girls are far more likely to 'preen', but they do it by spending hours in front of their VANITY mirrors!!! LOLOL

 

[philipdj]

sorry double post

 

[philipdj]

Well she is not as pretty but she I'd very production large light brown eggs!

nice... i just tought 2nd gen will be m0re mixed with pattern

 

[triplepurpose]

I just learned something interesting...

A little while back on this cool thread I brought up the possibility of creating black sex links using an Easter egger cock over Dominique hens...

But it seems that not only would they be sex linked for barring, but also for shank color! The cock should be homozygous id+/id+ with his wild type super dark shanks while the Dom hens with their yellow shanks would have to be Id/--! So the pullet chicks should have dark shanks like Daddy and the cockerels lighter shanks from their one copy of Mommy's Z chromosome, right...?! or did I miss something?

 

[donrae]

I just learned something interesting...

A little while back on this cool thread I brought up the possibility of creating black sex links using an Easter egger cock over Dominique hens...

But it seems that not only would they be sex linked for barring, but also for shank color! The cock should be homozygous id+/id+ with his wild type super dark shanks while the Dom hens with their yellow shanks would have to be Id/--! So the pullet chicks should have dark shanks like Daddy and the cockerels lighter shanks from their one copy of Mommy's Z chromosome, right...?! or did I miss something?

I've heard of this with fibro roosters, like Silkies, but I'm not sure if it would work with an EE rooster. Shank color is tricky, from the little research I've done on it.

Most EE are white or yellow skinned, under that layer of dark overlay that colors the legs. I'm not sure how that might interfere with sex linkage.

I tried putting a pure Ameraucana rooster (white skin, slate shanks) over a dark Cornish hen (yellow skin and shanks). I'd hoped the offspring would be sex linked by shank color, but it was a no go.

I'm setting up a pen with Delaware, barred Rock and light Brahma hens with a buff silkie cockerel. Should give me red and black sex links, and I'm going to look at shank color also. But, that's using a fibro Silkie, so results may be different.

 

[triplepurpose]

Hmm. Now that i think about more, It's probably more complicated with the doms too since dom chicks have dark shading on the legs that fades as they age. Not sure then if its actually dark skin base that is lightened by some effect of the barring gene, or vice versa, or some other factors at play. I shall have to look it up more when I get a chance... That breeding pen of yours sounds like a blast though!

 

[Mosey2003]

So, I have managed to hatch out 15 chicks (so far) from my Buff Orpington rooster over Barred Rock hens. I got chicks with very yellow faces and heads, and then some that appear mostly black, but can see a darker red face. I assume the yellow are cockerels? What's throwing me off is some of the blacker ones look like they might have some white feathers on top of their heads... Help?

 

[Ridgerunner]

How sure are you that those hens are true Barred Rocks? Could they be mixed?

Buff is hard to work with because it is such a strong modifier. In theory the chicks should have solid black down. I haven’t used a buff rooster over a solid black or black barred hen so I’m not sure what buff would do to the down. I know when they feather out you can get some really pretty effects, sometimes yellow or even orange mixed in with the black feathers. I just don’t know how that affects the down. That’s why I am wondering if your BR hens are true pure Barred Rock.

With the Buff rooster and a Barred hen, you have black sex links. Go by the spot on the head more than down color. Don’t worry about white feathers, look for the spot.

If the BR hens have silver, fairly likely, it’s possible you also have some red sex links in there. So yellow down as opposed to reddish down may be a clue, especially if those hens are not true BR. But go by the spot. With that barring you have black sex links, even if they are not necessarily black.

I’m interested in what the experts say about the effects of buff on black for down color.

 

[Mosey2003]

I got the Rocks second-hand, so I can't say for sure they're pure, though they are marked appropriately.

I know that buff covers more black than red, so the adults will have more gold on them than a standard black sexlink would have red.

The one dark one in the picture has noticeably redder cheeks, so I'm *thinking* the yellow headed ones are the males. I may just have to hold onto them until they get a little wing feather to be sure, but I'd rather know now...

In future, when I replace my current layers, I plan to get some good heritage Barred Rocks, so I'll be sure then.

 

[donrae]

Hmm. Now that i think about more, It's probably more complicated with the doms too since dom chicks have dark shading on the legs that fades as they age. Not sure then if its actually dark skin base that is lightened by some effect of the barring gene, or vice versa, or some other factors at play. I shall have to look it up more when I get a chance... That breeding pen of yours sounds like a blast though!

I know the barring gene does have effects on shank color. If you look at the threads where they're trying to make cuckoo Ameraucana (I think), getting the correct slate shank color is part of the challenge, especially on the double barred males. I know niclandia said he had a way to do that but don't know if I ever saw what it was.