Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[Shadrach]

Before everyone gets too excited I tried them when I was first looking to get more chickens and they had nothing.
They are currently listing 53 chickens in the whole of the US spread across 6 States.
Petfinder has 150 chickens listed. They are not ex-bats - more like ones removed from owners and looking to be rehomed.

Maybe there is an opportunity here for someone.

 

[Shadrach]

What do you mean by conditions here?
Do you mean anything that makes keeping chickens a lot more difficult than for the fortunate? Such as: a big problem with predators, a very harsh and difficult climate, a tiny garden, not enough money to buy good stuff?
Or do you mean they have a small coop and a tiny run because they think that is good enough to keep chickens healthy and sane, bearing in mind that chickens in the industry have much less space to live?
I can remember that when I started to keep chickens I was told/have been reading that 0,25m2 indoor and 1m2 outdoor space is just fine to keep chickens and was surprised that this is not even enough space for tiny chickens like my Dutch. -> social problems bringing in younger chicks when I kept them in a tractor and the soil getting unhealthy (smelly) by keeping 6 chickens in a 9m2 run.

I'm never quite sure how to phrase my view without causing either offense or eliciting angry reaction from a particular section of society that believe they have the right to treat the other creatures on the planet, and the planet itself come to that, however they choose.
I find myself caught between two opposing views, neither of which I support.
On the one hand there is animal rights movement which in general I detest and on the other hand, as mentioned above, there is the human rights view which I also detest.

I'm rather fond of crocodiles. They haven't changed much in thousands of years. Evolution got the design right from day one more or less. I don't keep crocodiles, not so much because they are dangerous but because I don't have suitable keeping conditions.
How does one judge what are suitable keeping conditions? Best option is to look at where the creature thrives without human intervention.

Of course, there are countless arguements that follow the reasoning that we are now farmers, chickens are not jungle fowl anymore, we need to feed lots of people, modern chicken breeds don't have much in common with breeds from their point of large scale domestication, etc etc.

What studies have shown is essentially the chicken has changed very little in natural behaviour and biology since it was first domesticated, bar the amount of eggs the hens lay. Their appearances have changed with breeding but how they think if you will, hasn't changed very much. They can and have adapted to a vast range of keeping conditions, with some negative consequences, but they survive.

Not one single person on this forum that I can think of needs to keep chickens. They keep chickens because the want to. There are lots of reasons why people want to keep chickens, many of those reasons when defended fail on logic.

I've worked with chickens kept in battery sheds, free rangers from small tribes to a large free range farm, tribes on a small holding and now Ex Battery and Rescues.
I would love to keep my own chickens but I haven't in the past because I have not had what I consider to be the right circumstances, not so much for me but for the chickens; wrong climate, not enough land, not enough money, too many predators...

So, I'll start with this basic proposition based on what I have observed about chicken behaviour.

Keeping chickens permenantly confined to a coop and run is an act of cruelty.

We (humans) carry out endless acts of cruelty so different people will have different sensitivities to it, but that is my basic view.
Next because there are different types of coop and run the act of cruelty is lesser or greater.
One is left with "I used to beat my children every day but now I only beat them on the weekends" type of defense for such acts.

I don't expect anyone else to adopt my viewpoint but it would be great if people would consider the basic propostion and learn a bit more about what the chicken is and what it wants before they get some. That's what I try to do here on BYC. I try to get people to get to know something about who and what the chicken is from my experiences, the various science experiments and the various studies.

It is interesting to note that many of those here on BYC with experience and educator badges keep their chickens free range, or in vastly better conditions than average. I might suggest that the more time one spends with chickens the closer one gets to my basic proposition.

However, in the last couple of years I have found an exception where I would consider keeping chickens with less than the optimal circumstances and that is when it comes to Ex Battery hens and rescues. The plight of these creatures is so acute that just having a patch of grass to walk on is such a major improvement in their lives that the ideal becomes almost irrelevant.

It seems probable that in the not to distant future I will break my lifelong rule and I will pay for some Ex Battery chickens in order to preserve the chicken keeping tradition at the alloments. There are a number of reasons for this but the main one is the allotments are one of the very few urban areas where one can keep a rooster left in the area. I have just about enough money to fund a small group and expand the keeping arrangements with the addition of another coop if necessary.

 

[TropicalChickies]

I'm never quite sure how to phrase my view without causing either offense or eliciting angry reaction from a particular section of society that believe they have the right to treat the other creatures on the planet, and the planet itself come to that, however they choose.

I can relate. Often find myself prefacing my stated feelings with things like, "I'm not telling anyone what to do" or "This is only my opinion" etc. But as one who also speaks plainly and has to do a fair amount of public relations to fund our reforestation project in Ecuador, interacting with the public on the topic of ecology and earth-abuse feels like walking a tightrope -- with the obvious facts of the abuse on one side of the balancing pole and the need to remain diplomatic and informative on the other.

It is not easy. It can be downright exhausting. Some people will always choose to be offended. I don't have any counsel to offer on this (not that you asked for any), only my empathy.

I might suggest that the more time one spends with chickens the closer one gets to my basic proposition.

Overall, probably true. I can't count the number of people who come to stay at our farm for even a few days and leave with a different view of chickens, simply from watching me interact with them and listening to me talk about their behaviors and dynamics. Most people, even very nice people, seem to think of chickens as walking rotisseries or more like plants that produce eggs. When people see that chickens actually vocalize, and have societies and friends and moods, I can often see a sometimes uncomfortable awakening happen ing.

The plight of these creatures is so acute that just having a patch of grass to walk on is such a major improvement in their lives that the ideal becomes almost irrelevant.

A poignant truth. There is a "pollero" -- large chicken farm- a few kilometers away from our farm, but these are birds kept for meat. Every few months, when I see the big truck rolling by with all the chickens on it going to be slaughtered, I fantasize about hijacking it like a road bandit and taking the chickens to a secret reserve. But given how debilitated they would be, that's of course a fantasy. Sometimes I just want to weep.
Most people in our area supply their own eggs with chickens kept in more or less acceptable ways with free ranging, mostly outdoor conditions. The young chickens I buy from our neighbor do get a longer life with more care to feed and well being at our farm, but compared to most, even those chickens have it much better. After spending time on this thread (I'm on page 500 or so, working my way through little by little) I'm wondering if there are large egg-supplying farms around where I could obtain rescues. It's such a worthy endeavor and I think I'm getting the stomach for it.

 

[BDutch]

I'm never quite sure how to phrase my view without causing either offense or eliciting angry reaction from a particular section of society that believe they have the right to treat the other creatures on the planet, and the planet itself come to that, however they choose.
I find myself caught between two opposing views, neither of which I support.
On the one hand there is animal rights movement which in general I detest and on the other hand, as mentioned above, there is the human rights view which I also detest.

I'm rather fond of crocodiles. They haven't changed much in thousands of years. Evolution got the design right from day one more or less. I don't keep crocodiles, not so much because they are dangerous but because I don't have suitable keeping conditions.
How does one judge what are suitable keeping conditions? Best option is to look at where the creature thrives without human intervention.

Of course, there are countless arguements that follow the reasoning that we are now farmers, chickens are not jungle fowl anymore, we need to feed lots of people, modern chicken breeds don't have much in common with breeds from their point of large scale domestication, etc etc.

What studies have shown is essentially the chicken has changed very little in natural behaviour and biology since it was first domesticated, bar the amount of eggs the hens lay. Their appearances have changed with breeding but how they think if you will, hasn't changed very much. They can and have adapted to a vast range of keeping conditions, with some negative consequences, but they survive.

Not one single person on this forum that I can think of needs to keep chickens. They keep chickens because the want to. There are lots of reasons why people want to keep chickens, many of those reasons when defended fail on logic.

I've worked with chickens kept in battery sheds, free rangers from small tribes to a large free range farm, tribes on a small holding and now Ex Battery and Rescues.
I would love to keep my own chickens but I haven't in the past because I have not had what I consider to be the right circumstances, not so much for me but for the chickens; wrong climate, not enough land, not enough money, too many predators...

So, I'll start with this basic proposition based on what I have observed about chicken behaviour.

Keeping chickens permenantly confined to a coop and run is an act of cruelty.

We (humans) carry out endless acts of cruelty so different people will have different sensitivities to it, but that is my basic view.
Next because there are different types of coop and run the act of cruelty is lesser or greater.
One is left with "I used to beat my children every day but now I only beat them on the weekends" type of defense for such acts.

I don't expect anyone else to adopt my viewpoint but it would be great if people would consider the basic propostion and learn a bit more about what the chicken is and what it wants before they get some. That's what I try to do here on BYC. I try to get people to get to know something about who and what the chicken is from my experiences, the various science experiments and the various studies.

It is interesting to note that many of those here on BYC with experience and educator badges keep their chickens free range, or in vastly better conditions than average. I might suggest that the more time one spends with chickens the closer one gets to my basic proposition.

However, in the last couple of years I have found an exception where I would consider keeping chickens with less than the optimal circumstances and that is when it comes to Ex Battery hens and rescues. The plight of these creatures is so acute that just having a patch of grass to walk on is such a major improvement in their lives that the ideal becomes almost irrelevant.

It seems probable that in the not to distant future I will break my lifelong rule and I will pay for some Ex Battery chickens in order to preserve the chicken keeping tradition at the alloments. There are a number of reasons for this but the main one is the allotments are one of the very few urban areas where one can keep a rooster left in the area. I have just about enough money to fund a small group and expand the keeping arrangements with the addition of another coop if necessary.

What a great response Shad. I was amazed too : crocodiles

I agree with you that industrial kept hens deserve a better life. As we have no more battery hens in NL and probably more countries in Europe by now, I would prefer the name ex-farm hens.

To help future farm hens, means that I try to buy no eggs or organic eggs. I know even organic hens don’t have a proper life and I don’t need eggs to survive, but I love the taste and to cook with them. So around Xmass I do buy what my chickens can’t give me. Living with care for animals and the planet is compromising all the time.

One of the reasons I don’t want ex-bats or ex-farm chickens is because I really dislike to keep animals that are bred for maximum production with health problems as a result.
Personally, I think buying ex-farm chickens is really a drop in the ocean. We need to change the animal industry with al its flaws. Not just for a somewhat normal animal life but also to stop pollution of the planet. The barricade’s would probably be more useful to make any significant changes.

Furthermore I refuse to spend ridiculous much money on a vet trying to give an ex-farm chicken a longer life. If a chicken is sick I let her die if its her time to go/I can’t fix it. Even if I love my chickens I need to accept their life is much shorter than a human life.

I find it very interesting to follow this thread because the chicken lovers who have gathered here try to do well in their own way and it is instructive for me to read what choices you and other hobby chicken lovers make. Its a wonderful group of people you have gathered around you.

 

[TropicalChickies]

What a great response Shad. I was amazed too : crocodiles

I agree with you that industrial kept hens deserve a better life. As we have no more battery hens in NL and probably more countries in Europe by now, I would prefer the name ex-farm hens.

To help future farm hens, means that I try to buy no eggs or organic eggs. I know even organic hens don’t have a proper life and I don’t need eggs to survive, but I love the taste and to cook with them. So around Xmass I do buy what my chickens can’t give me. Living with care for animals and the planet is compromising all the time.

One of the reasons I don’t want ex-bats or ex-farm chickens is because I really dislike to keep animals that are bred for maximum production with health problems as a result.
Personally, I think buying ex-farm chickens is really a drop in the ocean. We need to change the animal industry with al its flaws. Not just for a somewhat normal animal life but also to stop pollution of the planet. The barricade’s would probably be more useful to make any significant changes.

Furthermore I refuse to spend ridiculous much money on a vet trying to give an ex-farm chicken a longer life. If a chicken is sick I let her die if its her time to go/I can’t fix it. Even if I love my chickens I need to accept their life is much shorter than a human life.

I find it very interesting to follow this thread because the chicken lovers who have gathered here try to do well in their own way and it is instructive for me to read what choices you and other hobby chicken lovers make. Its a wonderful group of people you have gathered around you.

Totally agree. This thread is a solace. I hardly can bring myself to engage on "social media" anymore, but I drink the information and reflections here like water.

 

[Perris]

Is it coincidence you pick crocodiles, or is it because they're the closest evolutionary living relative to chickens?
https://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-crocodile-bird-genome-20141212-story.html

 

[BDutch]

I can relate. Often find myself prefacing my stated feelings with things like, "I'm not telling anyone what to do" or "This is only my opinion" etc. But as one who also speaks plainly and has to do a fair amount of public relations to fund our reforestation project in Ecuador, interacting with the public on the topic of ecology and earth-abuse feels like walking a tightrope -- with the obvious facts of the abuse on one side of the balancing pole and the need to remain diplomatic and informative on the other.

It is not easy. It can be downright exhausting. Some people will always choose to be offended. I don't have any counsel to offer on this, only my empathy.


Overall, probably true. I can't count the number of people who come to stay at our farm for even a few days and leave with a different view of chickens, simply from watching me interact with them and listening to me talk about their behaviors and dynamics. Most people, even very nice people, seem to think of chickens as walking rotisseries or more like plants that produce eggs. When people see that chickens actually vocalize, and have societies and friends and moods, I can often see a sometimes uncomfortable awakening happen ing.


A poignant truth. There is a "pollero" -- large chicken farms -- a few kilometers away from our farm, but these are birds kept for meat. Every few months, when I see the big truck rolling by with all the chickens on it going to be slaughtered, I fantasize about hijacking it like a road bandit and taking the chickens to a secret reserve. But given how debilitated they would be, that's of course a fantasy. Sometimes I just want to weep.
Most people in our area supply their own eggs with chickens kept in more or less acceptable ways with free ranging, mostly outdoor conditions. The young chickens I buy from our neighbor do get a longer life with more care to feed and well being at our farm, but compared to most, even those chickens have it much better. After spending time on this thread (I'm on page 500 or so, working my way through little by little) I'm wondering if there are large egg-supplying farms around where I could obtain rescues. It's such a worthy endeavor and I think I'm getting the stomach for it.

Did you see the last Borgen series? It is/was on Netflix Where the son liberates a trucks full of pigs? I think it contains a very true lesson for the West European way things are done.

 

[TropicalChickies]

Did you see the last Borgen series? It is/was on Netflix Where the son liberates a trucks full of pigs? I think it contains a very true lesson for the West European way things are done.

Haaa... I'm lucky to get an hour or two of shaky internet per day on the farm. Netflix is a bit out of my realm.

 

[BDutch]

Haaa... I'm lucky to get an hour or two of shaky internet per day on the farm. Netflix is a bit out of my realm.

We have an unstable internet too. But most days, only around 11 pm for maybe 30 minutes. .

It would be better for my productivity if we had an impossible internet every evening for at least 2 hours.

Tax for rambling:

 

[TropicalChickies]

We have an unstable internet too. But most days, only around 11 pm for maybe 30 minutes. .

It would be better for my productivity if we had an impossible internet every evening for at least 2 hours.

Tax for rambling: View attachment 3512316

I owe tax as well. I'm still in Quito, the capital city and looking forward to getting home to peace and quiet and chickens. The din of noise and complete lack of personal space in a crowded Latin American city can only be lived to be believed.

In the meantime, here's our dear Butchie, in younger days. I like the how the perspective in this picture makes the trees, sky and Butchie the focus and reduces our human dwelling to the background