Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[Perris]

While alfalfa in meal or pellet form is okay for chickens it's hardly a protein boost at around 15%.
Fish meal yes.
I can't see anything in the heritage feeding options that is going to give a low fat healthy high protein ration except the fish meal.

I only quoted those two supplemental notes as they related to peas etc. The main text in the pdf file has the principal advice, which, for convenience, I copy here:

"Feed requirements: Heritage breeds of chicken (especially heavy or dual purpose breeds) require a more nutritionally complete feed ration than their commercial counterparts, in order to fully achieve their potential size and productivity. Many of the common rations found in feed stores are formulated for commercial hybrid birds which are selected to grow well with less protein in their diets. Often producers can find appropriate levels of protein for Heritage chicks in game bird or turkey starter and grower diets. To best manage the nutritional requirements of Heritage chickens the following feeding schedule is recommended:
Hatch to 8 weeks of age: approximately 26-28% protein content game bird starter ration.
8 weeks of age to 12 weeks of age: approximately 22-24% protein content game bird grower ration.
12 weeks to until point of lay (24 weeks): approximately 18-20% protein content layer/broiler grower ration.
Point of lay (24 weeks) to end of laying cycle: approximately 16-18% protein content layer ration.
A little higher protein content keeps the bird healthier in times of heat/cold stress, and better maintains condition of the heavier bodied heritage laying hens. The layer ration has a higher calcium percentage than the grower ration at a max of 8% and a minimum of 5%.
Breeder ration: When collecting eggs for hatching from breeding stock attention to detail in nutrition is especially important and the addition of a nutrient/probiotic supplement can assist in increasing fertility and hatchability. Overall, feeding the breeder flock should fall into the general guidelines for the layer flock at approximately 16-18% protein content layer ration, with calcium at a max of 8% and a minimum of 5%."

I hope the idea that ordinary chicken layer feed is a 'complete balanced ration' suitable for all backyard chickens - many of which are not high production breeds -will be laid to rest soon.

 

[BDutch]

I'm not entirely sure I'm following the reasoning here.
The number of eggs a hen will lay in her life is a fixed quantity. It's fixed by the breed of the hen. It's fixed by her biology.

The rate at which a hen lays those fixed quantity of eggs she can lay is a variable.

It's the rate of laying that makes a hen a high production hen, not the fixed quantity of eggs she is capable of laying.

High production hens have had the rate at which they lay eggs altered.
The rate at which a hen lays the fixed quantity of eggs she is biologically capable of laying has a major impact on her health and longevity.

I don't think many people understand this.

In theory at least, if one can slow down the rate at which a hen lays the fixed quantity of eggs she is capable of laying then the theory is she is likely to be healthier and live longer.

One way of reducing a hens rate of egg laying is to have her broody for as long as possible and preferably hatch and rear chicks. While she is broody and raising her chicks she isn't laying eggs.

Even if I don't want a hen to sit and hatch I let her sit until her egg laying cycle swit
ches off, usually three days. Some hens return to laying faster than others after this cycle break. Those who are primarliy interested in getting eggs rather than the hens health will try and prevent the hens broodiness as early as possible. However, over the lifespan of the hen, they will still get the same number of eggs, just not as quickly.

Of course there are other influencing factors. The longer a hen lives the higher the chances of getting predated, or other health problem unrelated to the rate at which she lays eggs.

However, it is important to understand one can have the hens laying capacity over a short period of time getting a higher quantity of eggs per year, or the same number of eggs over a longer period of time with less eggs per year. At the point the hen dies (all depending on ideal circumstances) you will still end up with the same total number of eggs.

What I take away from your post is you want the maximum yearly output.

No I don’t want the max output in a short life. I don’t like a hen to sit for nothing. She doesn’t know it useless what she is doing. I do know it useless and that it can be unhealthy because in this period she doesn’t eat and drink well. I wish to give her foremost a healthy and active life.

I have been reading a few times about the max numbers of eggs a hen can lay. But I take it with a pinch of salt because it doesn’t add up completely to other things I know or have learned. Wikipedia and other sources also claim that a hen lays an egg every 24-26 hours. Which is only true for laying hybrids and some production breeds like Red Island Red and Barnevelder. But this is certainly not true for many heritage breeds.

Spoiler: Egg production | Eggcells

A healthy laying hen lays an average of about 250 to 300 eggs per year. This is highly dependent on the breed. Producing an egg is therefore a fairly quick process that takes about 24 hours. Most of the time is taken up by forming the hard shell. Each chicken has approximately two thousand eggs in the ovary that can develop into a full-fledged egg. Such an egg cell consists largely of the later yolk. Once these eggs are used up, no more eggs can be laid. It happens that when the chickens are old, they no longer lay eggs.
Source: https://www.kippenziekten.nl/anatomie-van-een-kip/

First, hens have about 2000 eggcells in her body to start with that ripen once day/two days in the laying season.
You say: The number of eggs a hen will lay in her life is a fixed quantity.
I say : The max number of eggs a hen can lay in her life is a fixed quantity.

If the 2000 eggcells is true, there must be eggs that don’t ripen because chickens dont lay 200 eggs a year for 10 years.

If I let my broodies sit 3-4 times each season, she will lay just a few weeks each year. I find it very hard to believe that a 15 year old hen still lays eggs if I let her sit 3-4 times a year.

Letting a production/hybrid hen sit a few weeks each year might be good for her health. Just like it’s good to have a stop while moulting.

 

[BDutch]

notes as they related to peas etc.

I have been reading somewhere, chickens tend to let the hard peas and corn/mais uneaten until they have eaten the other feed. Probably because they need to grind it to digest.

Interesting for the researchers amongst us is this old article I found. A research on preferences of chickens offered different kind of grains. Its from the archive of the NRC newspaper dated 1940. You can easily translate it with google or chatgtp: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/1940/08/0...el-liever-dan-de-andere-kb_000053759-a1880977

 

[Perris]

I have been reading somewhere, chickens tend to let the hard peas and corn/mais uneaten until they have eaten the other feed. Probably because they need to grind it to digest.

Interesting for the researchers amongst us is this old article I found. A research on preferences of chickens offered different kind of grains. Its from the archive of the NRC newspaper dated 1940. You can easily translate it with google or chatgtp: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/1940/08/0...el-liever-dan-de-andere-kb_000053759-a1880977

that's behind a paywall for me

 

[Shadrach]

No I don’t want the max output in a short life. I don’t like a hen to sit for nothing. She doesn’t know it useless what she is doing. I do know it useless and that it can be unhealthy because in this period she doesn’t eat and drink well. I wish to give her foremost a healthy and active life.

I have been reading a few times about the max numbers of eggs a hen can lay. But I take it with a pinch of salt because it doesn’t add up completely to other things I know or have learned. Wikipedia and other sources also claim that a hen lays an egg every 24-26 hours. Which is only true for laying hybrids and some production breeds like Red Island Red and Barnevelder. But this is certainly not true for many heritage breeds.

Spoiler: Egg production | Eggcells

A healthy laying hen lays an average of about 250 to 300 eggs per year. This is highly dependent on the breed. Producing an egg is therefore a fairly quick process that takes about 24 hours. Most of the time is taken up by forming the hard shell. Each chicken has approximately two thousand eggs in the ovary that can develop into a full-fledged egg. Such an egg cell consists largely of the later yolk. Once these eggs are used up, no more eggs can be laid. It happens that when the chickens are old, they no longer lay eggs.
Source: https://www.kippenziekten.nl/anatomie-van-een-kip/

First, hens have about 2000 eggcells in her body to start with that ripen once day/two days in the laying season.
You say: The number of eggs a hen will lay in her life is a fixed quantity.
I say : The max number of eggs a hen can lay in her life is a fixed quantity.

If the 2000 eggcells is true, there must be eggs that don’t ripen because chickens dont lay 200 eggs a year for 10 years.

If I let my broodies sit 3-4 times each season, she will lay just a few weeks each year. I find it very hard to believe that a 15 year old hen still lays eggs if I let her sit 3-4 times a year.

Letting a production/hybrid hen sit a few weeks each year might be good for her health. Just like it’s good to have a stop while moulting.

Fair comment regarding can and will.

 

[BDutch]

that's behind a paywall for me

I thought is was for free the first 3 times.
I added the translated article in the spoiler.

Spoiler: Science the chicken is picky

Science the chicken is picky

She prefers to eat one grain of wheat over another. ​

1940, Reading time 3 minutes
Our heads are so full of distribution concerns that we must be interested in everything that concerns food supply! Even the chicken's food supply... If chickens are given a mixture of different grains, wheat, rye, barley and oats - C. Engelmann explains in the "Zeitschrift für Vergleichende Physiologie" (no. 27, part 5, 1940). ) - it appears that they have a certain preference for one of the grain types, such as wheat. Not infrequently they neglect the grains of one of the grain types, including oats. This preference has been extensively researched by Engelmann. For this purpose, heaps of a grain type were made and the piles of different grains: wheat, rye, oats, barley, corn and also peas, on a gray cardboard, always offered to the chickens next to each other for choice. The chickens always had to choose between two types. The piles of the first four grains consisted of 10-15 grains, those of peas and corn of 4-5 grains, so that apparently the different piles were almost the same size. The mutual distance between the piles was 15 cm.

At the start of the experiments, when the animals are still hungry, they start to devour both types of grain indiscriminately until a certain state of saturation has set in, after which, e.g. wheat is preferred, while the animals ignore rye. The same thing repeats itself the following days. Other chickens either initially completely consume both types of grain or take all the grains of one type, while quickly abandoning those of the other type after having eaten a few grains. A second group may eat some grains from the otherwise despised group, but takes all the grains from the favored group. The chickens appeared to have a preference series, starting with wheat, running through corn, rye, barley and oats. Now when one asks, why chickens prefer to eat one grain and prefer to eat another less or not at all, it is logical to conduct experiments to determine whether this affects taste, color, shape or other properties. of objects. Above we have seen that there may be a certain connection between the degree of saturation of the chickens and the beginning of refusing a certain food. This degree of saturation is not absolute, but relative. The most of the preferred species is recorded, and generally speaking, the more of a particular cereal species the higher it is in the ranking of preference. For example, more grams of grains are consumed from wheat than from rye or barley. The start of refusing one or another type of grain also depends on the place that type occupies in the ranking. The external characteristics of the grains play a predominant role. The situation is slightly different for peas. Some chickens like to eat peas, but they prefer some grains; other chickens prefer all grains to peas. The pea therefore does not occupy a permanent place among the chicken's favorite foods. Grain kneaded into balls of the various kinds of wheat, rye, barley, and oats were all consumed; corn and pea balls were taken less often. This shows that the shape of the food is of great importance, because the balls were almost the same size. Yet here too there appears to be a certain preference, namely in the order wheat, barley, rye, oats, peas, corn, although the differences are minor. The types of food are distinguished by color and consistency.

With artificial coloring, to make one type resemble another or to erase color differences, the ranking was not changed if the grains themselves were colored, but only if the kneaded balls of the different types of grain were colored. Except for maize, which differs greatly in consistency from the other species, any preference has now disappeared. Finally, Engelmann recreated wheat grains from rye grains and became wheat grains metamorphosed into rye grains. Here it appears that the form determines the choice, not the taste, so that in general one can say that the choice of food is determined by facial impressions and possibly also by tactile impressions, but not by taste stimuli. vitamin C combats the "X-ray hangover" The great importance that people now attach to Vitamin C for nutrition only dates from after the World War. Then the men of science became aware that a good and sufficient diet, in addition to the three major food groups — protein, fat and sugar — should also contain other nitrogenous substances. Vitamins are found in all green plantains and the husks of fresh seeds. One of the most important vitamins, which can be distinguished by the first letters of the mentioned in the alphabet is Vitamin C. It is soluble in fat, present in all green parts of the vegetable, but also in apples, pears, oranges and lemons. However, it is destroyed at a heat of 100 degrees. Fremdenblatt", it is now pointed out that German science has now managed to find a new use case. When treating the sick with X-rays, n.1. So far, shortness of breath, headache, nausea and loss of appetite have often occurred. These unpleasant side effects, which often delayed healing, had been given the collective name of "X-ray hangover". There were no effective remedies against it. This appears to be Vitamin C. Its effect appears to be based on an "Ersatzwirkung", because upon examination of the ascorbic acid level in the blood, a significant decrease in Vitamin C levels was noticeable in many patients after X-ray irradiation. About an hour after administering an additional amount of Vitamin C, the dreaded "X-ray hangover" disappeared, which could have a detrimental effect on the patient, who was already severely weakened as a result of his illness. Thus, Vitamin C can be seen as a new medicine that will be used in the future. in X-ray therapy will be applied in all countries. )

 

[Perris]

Thanks for providing that (I think the vit C stuff at the end must be another article).

On taste things have progressed since the 1930s-40. The chicken has 300 taste buds, and taste is of course essential for discriminating between edible and inedible substances. The bird's sense of taste "isn't staring us in the face, so it has been under-researched, but it is there...it would be wonderful if someone were to undertake a really comprehensive survey" using a more rigorous and less human-centric methodology than in previous work, Birkhead Bird Sense 2012 chapter 4, Taste.

 

[no fly zone]

It's also what killed the majority of the Ex Battery hens.
I have this theory that if one could get the Ex Battery hens to go broody one might extend their life expectancy a little.

She only went broody once.

 

[Ladies-Eight]

Ex Batts good morning one and all!

Temperature is in the 60s.

Have a great day!

 

[ManueB]

Storey's section on moulting included a comment that a tame or pet chicken would appreciate some help removing the hard-to-reach keratin sheaths on the new feathers, by gently scraping with the fingers, rubbing the feathers in the direction of growth with a damp cloth, or wiping with a dry terry towel after misting with warm water. So I brought Chirk in and we set to work. After multiple sessions trying different methods through the day, we found the best one by far is a little fine pin brush and a soft bristle shoe brush used in rotation. The tougher sheaths needed pressing between my fingers first. The really tough ones are still there, but we managed to fill a dustpan with the bits! I think he'll be a lot more comfortable tonight. View attachment 3662314

How nice that you did that for him, and that he had the trust to let you. He looks quite good , he is standing more upright ? How has he been doing ?(I don't want to be a pain or nosey asking all the time about him but I keep wondering ).

My ex-batts never went broody ; when two of our backyard mix pullets began turning broody just after they had started to lay, I didn't want to break them, even if I did not let them hatch. It seemed a bit cruel. I have changed my mind after a few months ; mostly because they (one especially, Merle) turn broody about once every four or five weeks. I begin by taking them off the nest at night , and if that is not enough after a few days I take them out of the nest several times a day, and ultimately I make the nest inaccessible when possible. My bantam Chipie turns broody only once a year, so we let her sit on air ; however she was still sitting after 30 days, so I went through the same as I would have done after three or four days.

About the production breeds, I agree with what has been said and the fact that their not taking breaks kill them. But I wanted to note that just like with heritage breeds, there are individual differences in regard to their laying. None of my six ex-batts had exactly the same laying history and cycle, and even the three that died of reproductive disease did not have the same type of laying cycle and frequency. And I also noted that after two years old, only one of them laid every day and the other were all taking breaks, either long, or between two or three eggs.
I suppose that a battery or commercial hen that had trouble laying before their spent age would either die or be culled ; two of mine had trouble laying as soon as their first year, however, one is still with us at four years old.
While unfortunately it can't be denied that the chance of reproductive disease is heavier when a hen lays everyday throughout her first 18 months of laying, maybe there are other factors that would explain individual differences that we don't necessarily understand or have the medical means to explore.