Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[NatJ]

So, for the first ten days we have starter first age. However unlike the recommendation I see here it's around 12 % protein. I'll do with that and I expect my partner will add the mixture of boiled egg and bread the first days.
( BTW I think one of the main problem, beside salt, with today's bread is the leavening agent, most of the time baking yeast instead of sourdough. I'll make sure we get sourdough bread).

I would skip the bread, and just give the starter with supplemental egg.

Then, I find an other type of food called either second age, or pullets/cockerels. Now depending on the brand it ranges from 12 % to 21% ( that last one is professional range). That's a huge gap and most of the brands that are easy to find are rather on the low spectrum.

If you can get the high protein end, I would just feed that from the very first day, and not bother with egg, or two kinds of feed.

Mixing a higher-protein feed with a lower-protein feed can also work. Depending on the proportions you use, you can get any protein level in between the two starting points.

I would like and will have to integrate the little ones as soon as possible with the actual flock, hopefully between two and three weeks. That is, if we don't have too much aggression seen how they all absolutely hate broody Chipie. So this means the same food for everyone. Now I understand layer food with 3 to 4 percent calcium would be harmful for growing pullets and cockerels. Should I put everyone on this second age feed thing and try to find one with higher protein content ? Or go with "all flock", that in my country has about 14 % protein ? Or do a mix of layer and all flock ?

I would use the second stage food, or the all flock, and skip the layer. Just make sure they have a source of calcium (like a dish of oyster shell) so the hens can eat what they need. The chicks may sample the oyster shell too, but they typically don't eat enough to cause themselves any problems.

My understanding is that US chickens foods have more protein than the chickens really need, but just barely enough of certain amino acids. The rest of the protein is extra of some amino acids, which does not harm the chickens but does not help either. If your country is being more careful about the balance of amino acids, the chickens may get just as much protein they can actually use, even with the total protein being lower.

@U_Stormcrow knows more than I do about the amino acid requirements and reading labels, so he might be able to help you check the foods that are available to you.

 

[Perris]

it's around 12 % protein. I'll do with that and I expect my partner will add the mixture of boiled egg and bread the first days.
( BTW I think one of the main problem, beside salt, with today's bread is the leavening agent, most of the time baking yeast instead of sourdough

I don't think either of these things are an issue in the quantities you're talking about. Chickens - like all animals - need a little salt, and baker's yeast contains vitamin b.

3 to 4 percent

As your birds free range, all percentages of what they actually get will be approximate, and small figures don't matter unless you are talking about them eating proper toxins, i.e. things toxic in very small quantities, rather than things which do damage if eaten in too great quantities over the medium to long term. Excess nutrients that can't be stored in the body are excreted.

and of course they all grab whatever they want when they forage in the field

exactly. And what they find there is hugely variable. And they are usually the healthier the more varied it is.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

@NatJ is correct - our friends across the pond do with much less raw protein, and a much greater addition of synthetic amino acids to make up the difference - dl-Methionine and L-Lysine. Here in the US, we generally have a much higher level of protein in an effort to meet the Met and Lys targets without use of the synthetics as, on a relative basis, its usually cheaper for us to add more bulk protein from a source like soy or flax than it is to provide synthetics. In the EU, where grains generally are more expensive (and let's be honest, they aren't famed for producing thousands of tons of soy), the math comes out differently.

Unfortunately, this is a case where I am familiar with the theory, and familiar with the various practices, but nevertheless am unlikely to be much help in sorting best feeds from not. The EU's guaranteed nutritional labeling practices leave "much" to be desired. Do spend some time on your MFG's websites, making sure they do in fact add the synthetics, and checking your labels for ingredients - I can sort out some of the completely subpar that way, but without knowing the ratios of inclusion, its impossible to do more than that.

They don't make it easy for you to be an educated shopper over there.

 

[ManueB]

I am by no means an expert but I go with the high protein feed for them all. I sometimes mix the grower and the all flock. But that is just because of availability. I have moved over to an insect protein feed (no soy) and that is I think 18 or maybe 20% protein. It is proving massively popular.
The big chickens love the very high protein feed and of course they all grab whatever they want when they forage in the field.

I would skip the bread, and just give the starter with supplemental egg.


If you can get the high protein end, I would just feed that from the very first day, and not bother with egg, or two kinds of feed.

Mixing a higher-protein feed with a lower-protein feed can also work. Depending on the proportions you use, you can get any protein level in between the two starting points.


I would use the second stage food, or the all flock, and skip the layer. Just make sure they have a source of calcium (like a dish of oyster shell) so the hens can eat what they need. The chicks may sample the oyster shell too, but they typically don't eat enough to cause themselves any problems.

My understanding is that US chickens foods have more protein than the chickens really need, but just barely enough of certain amino acids. The rest of the protein is extra of some amino acids, which does not harm the chickens but does not help either. If your country is being more careful about the balance of amino acids, the chickens may get just as much protein they can actually use, even with the total protein being lower.

@U_Stormcrow knows more than I do about the amino acid requirements and reading labels, so he might be able to help you check the foods that are available to you.

Thank you for your replies. So the presence of the right amino acids would explain the different level of protein. I looked the feed up online, but I will have to check what is in fact available in the stores I have access to.
Another difficulty mentioned by Shadrach is that the labels don't always detail the whole nutrient analysis, especially with food that is not meant for poultry professionals, the different amino acids levels would not be detailed but just the global percentage of protein. And many of the professional brands are impossible to find in local stores.

I don't think either of these things are an issue in the quantities you're talking about. Chickens - like all animals - need a little salt, and baker's yeast contains vitamin b.

As your birds free range, all percentages of what they actually get will be approximate, and small figures don't matter unless you are talking about them eating proper toxins, i.e. things toxic in very small quantities, rather than things which do damage if eaten in too great quantities over the medium to long term. Excess nutrients that can't be stored in the body are excreted.

exactly. And what they find there is hugely variable. And they are usually the healthier the more varied it is.

That's a pretty reassuring point of view! I'll make sure that they're able to go out on grass as soon as possible. I just hope they won't be as feral as the broody mother because otherwise I'll never be able to get them anywhere .

 

[ManueB]

@NatJ is correct - our friends across the pond do with much less raw protein, and a much greater addition of synthetic amino acids to make up the difference - dl-Methionine and L-Lysine. Here in the US, we generally have a much higher level of protein in an effort to meet the Met and Lys targets without use of the synthetics as, on a relative basis, its usually cheaper for us to add more bulk protein from a source like soy or flax than it is to provide synthetics. In the EU, where grains generally are more expensive (and let's be honest, they aren't famed for producing thousands of tons of soy), the math comes out differently.

Unfortunately, this is a case where I am familiar with the theory, and familiar with the various practices, but nevertheless am unlikely to be much help in sorting best feeds from not. The EU's guaranteed nutritional labeling practices leave "much" to be desired. Do spend some time on your MFG's websites, making sure they do in fact add the synthetics, and checking your labels for ingredients - I can sort out some of the completely subpar that way, but without knowing the ratios of inclusion, its impossible to do more than that.

They don't make it easy for you to be an educated shopper over there.

Yes, the labelling definitely varies a lot regarding animal food. I wouldn't find this to be a problem if we had one or two decent brand of all flock, but unfortunately it's not the case and with the war in Ukraine the brands are changing their compositions all the time, so you're not even sure to get the same product as what you bought the month before.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Yes, the labelling definitely varies a lot regarding animal food. I wouldn't find this to be a problem if we had one or two decent brand of all flock, but unfortunately it's not the case and with the war in Ukraine the brands are changing their compositions all the time, so you're not even sure to get the same product as what you bought the month before.

Truly, I understand. Wish I could be more help.

 

[pennyJo1960]

Good Morning to X Batts .. Wet day here.
My Dad would take the ash from the wood heater to give to birds.
'I also give wood ash to birds there is no floor in their coop.
This is tax paid ?

 

[no fly zone]

I think someone mentions this later but feeding a mash would help.

The mash seemed to do the trick.

 

[Shadrach]

What would be the problem ? Having to clean the feeder everyday after eating?

Better larf than cry but what can you expect from people not even able to buy a proper wheelbarrow ?
That said too many wouldn't be any use, but just one or two more certainly would.

Sounds a bit like me, if you add a touch of Greta Thunberg gone stale /quiet with age. Good things my few friends are more fun than I !

Cleaning the feeders is one problem. C doesn't seem to be awake at the morning feed time is another.
Oh, you're plenty of fun. Now me, what with being a bit further left than Karl Marx is a different matter.

 

[Shadrach]

I've began looking at food for the coming chicks, and I have a headache.

So, for the first ten days we have starter first age. However unlike the recommendation I see here it's around 12 % protein. I'll do with that and I expect my partner will add the mixture of boiled egg and bread the first days.
( BTW I think one of the main problem, beside salt, with today's bread is the leavening agent, most of the time baking yeast instead of sourdough. I'll make sure we get sourdough bread).

Then, I find an other type of food called either second age, or pullets/cockerels. Now depending on the brand it ranges from 12 % to 21% ( that last one is professional range). That's a huge gap and most of the brands that are easy to find are rather on the low spectrum.

I would like and will have to integrate the little ones as soon as possible with the actual flock, hopefully between two and three weeks. That is, if we don't have too much aggression seen how they all absolutely hate broody Chipie. So this means the same food for everyone. Now I understand layer food with 3 to 4 percent calcium would be harmful for growing pullets and cockerels. Should I put everyone on this second age feed thing and try to find one with higher protein content ? Or go with "all flock", that in my country has about 14 % protein ? Or do a mix of layer and all flock ?
I'm sure anyone who read up to this point also has a headache by now .

High protein feed for the chicks. I try to feed everyone a high protein feed. The high protein isn't a problem given excess just gets excreted.
!8% protein, 1% Calcium with a Calcium source available for the layers is one way.
For a small number of laying hens providing Calcium Citrate by hand is doable.

Not that long ago chicken feed containing fish meal was still available in Southern France. The people we got the Marans from in Marans used to feed it.
Mixing feed is not recommended.
Given yours free range usually any shortfalls in the feed are made up with forage.
The professional feeds are what I used to use. I'll try and give you a few links when I get back on my own computer.

It's been in the UK that I've found feed analysis a problem along with dubious quality.
Catalonia was in general excellent. Full feed analysis. Obvious mill dates. Fresh ingredients.
Italy is much the same.
Portugal good as well.
But, all the above are from what one might call the professional range.
The most obvious problems the Americans have is their farm stores tend not to know much about feed and are apparently notorious for selling out of date feed. Pet shops in the EU tend not to sell much chicken feed so the knowledge issue doesn't arise so much.