Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[kcan2]

The Light Sussex rooster I was told is called Henry 11. Apparently he’s not over fond of people. One of the reasons he has such bad scaly leg mite is he wouldn’t have any of that capturing business and was prone to having a bit of a scrap in the event he got cornered. He’s quite a large chap and he’s got a lovely set of spurs on him.

So, job one was to get acquainted with Henry.

Happy belated 2 year anniversary to this thread, Shadrach! If votes count, I do vote for Henry to get a celebratory walnut!

 

[MrsNorthie]

The allotment lot if I'm there for three hours get two shots at eating whatever feed I take; one as soon as I get there and one just before roosting. What I need in this case is maximum nutrition and minimum volume.

That is where I am lucky, I work from home and my feathered babies are just a few steps out the door. Sun rise, right now is around 7:00 and sunset is between 5:00 and 5:30. It is definitely pitch dark by 6 PM. So they are getting just about 10 hours outside for feeding and exercise (which is centered around eating too.. LOL) So I feed them multiple times a day.

I am not super scientific (no shite sherlock..) but via a converter a 3 gallon (11.36 liter) bucket holds approximately 48 cups, 150 grams is little over 1/2 a cup. For 35 chickens (30 pullets/5 cockerels), I fill a 3 gallon bucket (11.36 liter) with the fermented feed first thing in the AM, then I top them off 3 more times per day. (3 times a week I add meat, typically fish in the form of sardines, tuna, or whatever fresh/frozen fish they had on sale at the grocery store. The feed times are pretty close to 7:00, 10:00, 13:00, and 1500, everyday, to maximize their opportunity to eat what they need. They have access to the food for the full day. Some days they eat more than others, but with my method of just topping them off as needed, I don't have waste or very much leftover food to clean up once they go to roost.

Since it has been getting down into the mid to upper 20's at night, there aren't many natural things for them to forage for so I supplement with dry grains, fruit or veg and some meal worms scattered around for them to scratch and forage. Their crops are full at bed time, and empty in the morning and they really seem to be thriving and are a good weight.

 

[MrsNorthie]

I really need to get some pictures, but I work from 9 am to 6 so I barely get the chance. Most of the time that I am down there is doing stuff for them and socializing. One of the girls has taken to jumping on my back while I am bent over filling the feeders and when I stand up she works her way to my shoulder and coos at me while I finish all the feeders. (this is one of the wild children that have not been handled and cuddled like the first girls.)

Squeak is roosting with the older group, and always right next to Blue, flanked by girls then Goldie and Spud on either end. Pip is in the nursery coop with the younger girls all to himself. I am hoping this is the start to them all roosting in the same coop, joining one at a time, but I am also pretty sure that Squeak is in training with Blue. (he is the least mature of the 2 surprise cockerels, so Pip is trusted with the girls and Squeak is being schooled by the king.) I love how there is virtually no aggro between the boys, they are all getting along and working together. It is extremely pleasant seeing everyone foraging together, peacefully. Some of this is likely down to the 3 older boys getting closer to maturity and the colder weather, but I will take it.

 

[townchicks]

You've got an older right-hand metric cup!

Yes, but I don't use it much, so it doesn't bother me.

 

[Perris]

With dry feed the chicken gets more nutrition per gram or per volume than with fermented feed

This is a large part of the problem with commercial feed. It's concentrated. They get what they need in a very short time, and the rest makes them fat and/or lazy. You yourself frequently mention the need for exercise. They get that looking for food. They enjoy it. They will even forage when full. I can find the refs for that if you want.

Why does Shadrach keep banging on about commercial feeds when we're all on the feremented whole grains and pulses? Well, while the overall quality of what goes into commercial feed may leave a lot to be desired, the industry has done the math and the reasearch and has billions of chickens as evidence that chicken can survive and thrive on their feeds.

The research was motivated by the question of how to get the maximum output with minimum input, in particular, at least cost, with no concern for the long term health of the production birds ('long term' being 2 months old for broiler chicks), or indeed the environmental cost of such production systems such as eutrophied rivers and fields in the vicinity of such a production unit. The wasted excess nutrients in the so-called 'complete balanced feed' given to millions of chickens in its catchment area have nearly killed the River Wye. The marketing claims of feed manufacturers should not be mistaken for good nutrition advice.

 

[Perris]

I'm trying out drying the fermented feed.

Be very careful. There are some nasty fungi that like damp grain.

 

[Perris]

If dry grains and peas get soaked they take up water. You cant compare dry stuff with soaked stuff if you neglect the water which is not in the dry food. I came across this before when people claimed yoghurt has less proteins than chicken feed. If you remove the amount of water, there is more protein in yogurt.

and when chickens eat dry commercial feed, they also drink (need to drink) a lot of water to metabolize it, so the increase in volume goes on in the bird rather than in the foodbowl.

 

[BDutch]

I work from home and my feathered babies are just a few steps out the door.

I really need to get some pictures, but I work from 9 am to 6 …

If you really want to make pictures you can take your smartphone or camera outside in a break to make a few pictures. And besides, there is always the weekend. If you don’t want to share, I understand. But I don’t understand the explanation you gave. Taking an ordinary photo only takes a minute. And if you have a smartphone another minute to post it. Please say so if you could use some help to post them.

They get what they need in a very short time, and the rest makes them fat and/or lazy.

This is why the animal/garden shop and not commercial animal organisations all recommend to scatter scratch in the run and give them other things like a compost heap to keep your backyard chickens busy. Especially when chickens can’t free range. Scratch is in general a variety of grains with cracked corn and sunflower seeds. The organic scratch I buy is of good quality. I can even let it sprout. Except for the cracked corn of course.

The shops do know BY chickens are not for commercial purposes. Thats also why they sell small bags with special chicken feed that are priced way too high.

FYI. Chicken goodies from the chicken shop (kippenhuis.nl) in NL:

It costs about € 35 and contains:

• Vitaflow vitamines 250 ml
• Ropa Poultry Complete 100 ml
• Hobby First Farm Pickblock
• ESVE Mix-XL Stick
• Mealworms 1L

 

[Shadrach]

This is a large part of the problem with commercial feed. It's concentrated. They get what they need in a very short time, and the rest makes them fat and/or lazy. You yourself frequently mention the need for exercise. They get that looking for food. They enjoy it. They will even forage when full. I can find the refs for that if you want.

The research was motivated by the question of how to get the maximum output with minimum input, in particular, at least cost, with no concern for the long term health of the production birds ('long term' being 2 months old for broiler chicks), or indeed the environmental cost of such production systems such as eutrophied rivers and fields in the vicinity of such a production unit. The wasted excess nutrients in the so-called 'complete balanced feed' given to millions of chickens in its catchment area have nearly killed the River Wye. The marketing claims of feed manufacturers should not be mistaken for good nutrition advice.

Yes sort of but...

Fermentation is a method of concentrating feed it could be argued. As you mention birds that get their nutritional requirements from a supplied feed will still forage but what they forage for may well be more selective, self found treats if you will rather than trying to fill a crop.

What do chickens need in both quality and quantity is yet another debate. A high production breed needs more nutrients than a a hen that lays 200 eggs a year for example. So, it's reasonable to take the type of chicken one has into account. Despite the feed isn't producing eggs posts seen on this forum the evidence suggests that the hen will lay eggs in preference to supplying her own nutritional requirements. So, it's the breed that that's the problem, not the feed.
High production hens need more of everything. Concentrated feeds is one way of ensuring they get more. Looking at feed rather than breed is like looking at the problem with the wrong lens.

Little doubt that the majority of commercial feeds are less than ideal for a chickens health, much like the processed foods we eat. But, it isn't the feed profile that's the problem just as it isn't the nutritional values of the junk food we may eat isn't the problem. It's the low quality and provenance of the ingredients and the methods of preparation.

There are lots of feed profiles. There are feed producers that will make a feed to any profile one requests if one is buying in tons.

Chickens get fat and lazy because they are fed commercial feed isn't true. Chickens get fat and lazy because of how they are kept. A free range chicken living entirely on forage is likely to consume much more in the way of fats then those fed on the low fat commercial feeds, but is likely to be healthier overall.
If a chicken is contained and feed is constantly available then they eat out of boredom much like people do and because there is no motivation or opportuntiy to forage and excercise some do become overweight and unhealthy fat deposits accumaulate around their organs.

The land and river pollution from chicken waste isn't really about the feed either, it's a stocking density problem. Nature is pretty good at cleaning up provided one doesn't overload the system. Half a dozen chicken eating commercial feed on an acre of land is unlikely to cause any problems.

None of the above means I'm a fan of commercial feed. What I'm not a fan of is the keeping conditions. All intensive farming practices generate high levels of polution. it's not so much the profile of the waste, it's the concentration/quantity of the waste. if one fed battery chickens unprocessed top quality fermented grains the polution problem would still exist.

I would argue that lifespan of a chicken is governed more by genetics than what it is fed. What it is fed influences it's health while it's alive but chickens are prone to certain diseases through their genes much like humans and other creatures. That's a breeding problem rather than a nutrition problem and unfortunately the backyard chicken movement is largely responsible for this. The birds the backyard keeper tend to favour are not the high production birds the commercial egg and meat producers favour, but breeding is turning the so called heritage breeds into high production birds because the backyard keepers want pretty and high production.

Many commercially produced feeds use the lowest grade wheat (often sweepings from the milling process with the additives sprayed on as a concentrate) and peas, or at least pea protein. They do this because it is cheap; not because it's the healthiest option. The feed you provide is wheat and pea based for similar reasons and the cheap wheat has less nutriants by weight than the more expensive wheats.

I've chosen a locally grown high protein wholegrain (spelt) in the hope that I can avoid using peas altogether. I hope to bring the feed to a particular profile by the addition of other foodstuffs the chickens will eat in their natural form. They don't like the peas, or the pulses, fermented or not. I'm not trying to produce a cheap feed. I'm trying to produce a feed to a profile using high quality,locally grown, mostly organically certified ingredients that they will readily eat in their natural form.

If the allotment chickens ranged from dawn to dusk I wouldn't be bothering with any of this. Again it's the keeping conditions that are the motivation for tinkering with the feed, not the commercial feed. The chickens in Catalonia were very healthy because they had a wide range of forage, lots of excercise and could choose to eat the commercial feed supplied or not.
The allotment chickens who can also choose how to balance their diet if the studies are right have said a very firm no to peas, but unfortunately don't have the dawn to dusk foraging opportunities.

 

[BDutch]

The land and river pollution from chicken waste isn't really about the feed either,

I love you respond and explanation. Great thoughts. Except for the above.

Crop that is meant for animals can contain lots of poisons. It’s even in their shit.
And please dont forget the harm thats being done in the countries where the GMO soy and corn is coming from. And even if thats not in the feed you ferment or give to your chickens, there is a lot of poison used in agriculture. So your chickens poop at least a little poison too.

In commercial chicken farming its a lots worse. Apart from the toxics the farmers use on the land on purpose they spread even more with chicken poo from non organic chickens. The manure that is spread on the land does also goes deep in the ground, into our drinking water sources and in our surface water.

In the Netherlands it even gets worse. Some farmers dump their manure illegally in a ditch or in the forest. Because of the regulations we have on when and how much the farmers can spread on the land.
If the farmer is caught he gets a huge fine for deliberate pollution. But the chance to get caught is very small. So they keep on doing this.

Old tax for talking too much about the environment.

Janice almost a year old and 3 chickens I lost 2 years ago.