She said/He said Who's right? Who's wrong? No one!

[AmyLynn2374]

I've never used that style of incubator, but I would assume the cradle does all of the turning necessary. I feed medicated chick feed. I'm not sure if it's a necessity or not, I just always have, and have never had chicks that hatched healthy die later

Me too!

Why am I imagining Amy's poor guests all huddled in a corner while she rants about dry incubation and wet chicks?

I'm trying not too...lol

I've had two mostly unsuccessful hatches... 3/9 and 5/24... I'm in your neighboring state of MA, so our climate is probably similar. The first one I did what the manual told me to do... (epic fail). I tried dry-ish for the second hatch... keeping it around 30-35, but once or twice it went up to 40 when i added water. Do you use a styro bator? I bought a brinsea eco 20 and I'm going to do a duelling bator hatch myself. Is there such a thing as TOO dry?

Yes there is. WV nailed it plus it can cause shrinkwrapping. I only go completely dry if over 25%. I aim for 30%. The only time I would run dryer than that is in teh case of too small cells and then only for a few days if neccessary.

Yes I believe too dry would cause the air cell to grow too large which wont allow the chick enough room to grow big enough, nor properly. My opinion.

 

[WalnutHill]

I picked up 18 bantam eggs to toss in too. My scheduled set date is May 14 (I have to work around my work travel schedule).

 

[lazy gardener]

Well it was for it's time, but I have never used it. I have other eggs BCMarans in another incubator I have, which is a "Humidaire" incubator. It does a rocking/cradle turner. I think it is way better. I think the next time, I will use the Turn-X only as a hatcher. Here is a picture of the humidaire. One last question, with the cradle incubators, do I need to do any additional hand turning of eggs during incubation, or does it do enough ? The manual doesn't mention additional hand turning, but want to do what is best for the eggs. Any opinions on chick starter ? Whether to feed medicated or non medicated. My local feed store says medicated, but they don't raise chickens .... Sorry for all the questions .... Just want it turn turn out well ! Thank you !!!

I'm a firm believer in NON medicated feed for chicks. If the store I'm buying from does not have non-medicated starter, I buy multi-flock starter/grower. It's non medicated, for all species of domestic fowl, and I think it's 20 - 22% protein. I also get my chicks started on a plug of sod from the yard during the first week, and also put them on fermented feed.

I've had two mostly unsuccessful hatches... 3/9 and 5/24... I'm in your neighboring state of MA, so our climate is probably similar. The first one I did what the manual told me to do... (epic fail). I tried dry-ish for the second hatch... keeping it around 30-35, but once or twice it went up to 40 when i added water. Do you use a styro bator? I bought a brinsea eco 20 and I'm going to do a duelling bator hatch myself. Is there such a thing as TOO dry?

I use a home made styrofoam bator with a fan. Yes, I believe it's possible to run too dry, for the reasons stated by previous poster. Let your air cells be your guide.

 

[AmyLynn2374]

I buy one small bag of the medicated chick starter and when that's gone they go to regular chick starter. I also always use the sav a chick electrolyte in the water the first two days.

 

[WVduckchick]

I buy one small bag of the medicated chick starter and when that's gone they go to regular chick starter. I also always use the sav a chick electrolyte in the water the first two days.

X2 for me

 

[WalnutHill]

Me too!

  I'm trying not too...lol

Yes there is. WV nailed it plus it can cause shrinkwrapping. I only go completely dry if over 25%. I aim for 30%. The only time I would run dryer than that is in teh case of too  small cells and then only for a few days if neccessary.

After many partially successful incubations and breakouts, this is my theory:

Before incubation, and for periods of less than two weeks, egg storage with humidity levels of approximately 25% to 30% is optimal to preserve the air cell. Eggs should be at room temperature when setting and allowed to rise to incubation temperature over time. The pH of albumen changes during the first few days after lay as long as good air exchange is provided, and I am now NOT setting my eggs the day they are laid.

I turn my eggs during storage in a spare auto turner.

When setting, during the first few days, restricted ventilation seems to promote better blood vessel growth. After day 3, I open the vents part way so that the air is damp but not stuffy, like a hot humid summer day on the porch, not like in the attic.

I believe that air cell growth must be complete by the week before the end of incubation. By the time there is only a little moisture left in the egg, I believe that late attempts to achieve bigger air cells do more harm than good by toughening membranes as the embryo begins to generate its own heat. The downside to undersized air cells is oversized chicks that often cannot pip or zip. Once the chick grows too large, it can't get smaller except through dehydration, which can be lethall during hatch.

While weekly weighing of 200 eggs in different stages is impractical, I believe that selecting a few average sized eggs in each tray with uniform shell density and tagging so that the same eggs are weighed every time will be sufficient.

 

[WVduckchick]

After many partially successful incubations and breakouts, this is my theory:

Before incubation, and for periods of less than two weeks, egg storage with humidity levels of approximately 25% to 30% is optimal to preserve the air cell. Eggs should be at room temperature when setting and allowed to rise to incubation temperature over time. The pH of albumen changes during the first few days after lay as long as good air exchange is provided, and I am now NOT setting my eggs the day they are laid.

I turn my eggs during storage in a spare auto turner.

When setting, during the first few days, restricted ventilation seems to promote better blood vessel growth. After day 3, I open the vents part way so that the air is damp but not stuffy, like a hot humid summer day on the porch, not like in the attic.

I believe that air cell growth must be complete by the week before the end of incubation. By the time there is only a little moisture left in the egg, I believe that late attempts to achieve bigger air cells do more harm than good by toughening membranes as the embryo begins to generate its own heat. The downside to undersized air cells is oversized chicks that often cannot pip or zip. Once the chick grows too large, it can't get smaller except through dehydration, which can be lethall during hatch.

While weekly weighing of 200 eggs in different stages is impractical, I believe that selecting a few average sized eggs in each tray with uniform shell density and tagging so that the same eggs are weighed every time will be sufficient.

I know that you hatch tons of eggs, and I very much respect your opinion. I just have a few questions concerning your theory.

- When you are ready to set the eggs that have been stored at room temperature, how do you increase from room temp to incubation temp over time (and how much time)? Is the incubator also at room temp, then turned on when the eggs are set, so that the eggs heat up slowly as the incubator does?? I know we see recommendations that the incubator be on and stabilized before setting eggs. In my mind, that's a much quicker increase in temp instead of a gradual increase, so how do you do it gradually?

- Can you elaborate on the pH of the albumen? What does higher or lower pH effect?

- I see your point on air cell growth being complete by a week before hatch, but I'm going to have to contemplate on that one a bit more.

- Weighing eggs... after my first disastrous incubation, I read about humidity and found so many varying opinions and varying circumstances, I couldn't decide what I needed to do. But when I found a comment about weighing eggs, I read more and decided that the weight method was the only consistent way to achieve the proper size air cell and allow for the proper growth of the chick. Just looking at a picture for reference was not scientific enough for me early on. I have not hatched tons of eggs, but the ones that I have done, weighing them at a few points throughout incubation gave me peace of mind that they were developing to proper size.

I also checked out your website in your signature. Looks like a lovely place and great business!

 

[WalnutHill]

I know that you hatch tons of eggs, and I very much respect your opinion. I just have a few questions concerning your theory.

- When you are ready to set the eggs that have been stored at room temperature, how do you increase from room temp to incubation temp over time (and how much time)? Is the incubator also at room temp, then turned on when the eggs are set, so that the eggs heat up slowly as the incubator does?? I know we see recommendations that the incubator be on and stabilized before setting eggs. In my mind, that's a much quicker increase in temp instead of a gradual increase, so how do you do it gradually?

- Can you elaborate on the pH of the albumen? What does higher or lower pH effect?

- I see your point on air cell growth being complete by a week before hatch, but I'm going to have to contemplate on that one a bit more.

- Weighing eggs... after my first disastrous incubation, I read about humidity and found so many varying opinions and varying circumstances, I couldn't decide what I needed to do. But when I found a comment about weighing eggs, I read more and decided that the weight method was the only consistent way to achieve the proper size air cell and allow for the proper growth of the chick. Just looking at a picture for reference was not scientific enough for me early on. I have not hatched tons of eggs, but the ones that I have done, weighing them at a few points throughout incubation gave me peace of mind that they were developing to proper size.

I also checked out your website in your signature. Looks like a lovely place and great business!

I increase from room temp to incubation temp over time by using a "slow" incubator...one with low enough wattage so that it doesn't work like a convection oven to heat the eggs too quickly. In my cabinet, I am using 11 watts/cubic foot with forced air, my old Farm Master incubator was 13 watts/cubic foot forced air, and my Leahy is 41 watts/cubic foot with still air (fully radiant top panel design).

pH reference: a more alkaline environment for development will help fight bacteria. Two references on this topic:
http://www.thepoultrysite.com/publi...handbook/5/internal-and-external-egg-quality/
http://www.biolbull.org/content/57/5/300.full.pdf

Air cell growth is certainly not "complete" by the 2/3 or 3/4 stage of incubation, however the chick's size to shell volume should be managed to this point so that the air cell can finish developing in the last stages.

I agree that weighing is key. But from a practical point of view, as in any production analysis, a few samples will suit as long as they are chosen without bias to the preferred result. So marking a few on day 0, then tracking the weight throughout incubation, will serve the end result. A notation of air cell development while charting weight will show that the charts are quite reasonable. Drawdown of the air cell down the side of the egg between day 14 and day 18 (or 24-28 for turkey) is dramatic and essential to a reliable pip, and can only be accomplished if the chick does not occupy too much shell volume and has sufficient moisture in-shell to prevent shrink wrapping.

 

[WVduckchick]

I increase from room temp to incubation temp over time by using a "slow" incubator...one with low enough wattage so that it doesn't work like a convection oven to heat the eggs too quickly. In my cabinet, I am using 11 watts/cubic foot with forced air, my old Farm Master incubator was 13 watts/cubic foot forced air, and my Leahy is 41 watts/cubic foot with still air (fully radiant top panel design).

pH reference: a more alkaline environment for development will help fight bacteria. Two references on this topic:
http://www.thepoultrysite.com/publi...handbook/5/internal-and-external-egg-quality/
http://www.biolbull.org/content/57/5/300.full.pdf

Air cell growth is certainly not "complete" by the 2/3 or 3/4 stage of incubation, however the chick's size to shell volume should be managed to this point so that the air cell can finish developing in the last stages.

I agree that weighing is key. But from a practical point of view, as in any production analysis, a few samples will suit as long as they are chosen without bias to the preferred result. So marking a few on day 0, then tracking the weight throughout incubation, will serve the end result. A notation of air cell development while charting weight will show that the charts are quite reasonable. Drawdown of the air cell down the side of the egg between day 14 and day 18 (or 24-28 for turkey) is dramatic and essential to a reliable pip, and can only be accomplished if the chick does not occupy too much shell volume and has sufficient moisture in-shell to prevent shrink wrapping.

Hmmm, so I will think up some ways to slowly increase the temp...

Interesting stuff on the pH. It initially seems like incubating eggs should be such a simple process, but there is so much involved! This is another huge possibility for failed hatchings that seem to have no apparent reason. Thanks for sharing.

I never hatch very many at a time, so I've weighed them all, but I agree a sampling would be fine. And yes, the charts are reasonable, I just didn't trust my own judgment to begin with. I guess I wasn't comfortable with comparing a picture to the actual. And the weighing and figuring part was fun for me too. I doubt that I will weigh my next batch, or at least not every egg, but it definitely helped me.

Thank you so much for your insight!

 

[scflock]

I increase from room temp to incubation temp over time by using a "slow" incubator...one with low enough wattage so that it doesn't work like a convection oven to heat the eggs too quickly. In my cabinet, I am using 11 watts/cubic foot with forced air, my old Farm Master incubator was 13 watts/cubic foot forced air, and my Leahy is 41 watts/cubic foot with still air (fully radiant top panel design).

pH reference: a more alkaline environment for development will help fight bacteria. Two references on this topic:
http://www.thepoultrysite.com/publi...handbook/5/internal-and-external-egg-quality/
http://www.biolbull.org/content/57/5/300.full.pdf

Air cell growth is certainly not "complete" by the 2/3 or 3/4 stage of incubation, however the chick's size to shell volume should be managed to this point so that the air cell can finish developing in the last stages.

I agree that weighing is key. But from a practical point of view, as in any production analysis, a few samples will suit as long as they are chosen without bias to the preferred result. So marking a few on day 0, then tracking the weight throughout incubation, will serve the end result. A notation of air cell development while charting weight will show that the charts are quite reasonable. Drawdown of the air cell down the side of the egg between day 14 and day 18 (or 24-28 for turkey) is dramatic and essential to a reliable pip, and can only be accomplished if the chick does not occupy too much shell volume and has sufficient moisture in-shell to prevent shrink wrapping.

I have so much respect for you guys that put so much study into incubating your eggs. I don't mark air cells, and I don't weigh, but I haven't needed to. In the interest of the subject matter of this thread, is that another difference between expensive incubators and homemade or styrofoam, or is it just blind luck? I gather eggs for ten days or less (usually get enough within 5). I turn the incubator on, but set within an hour. All except one of my hatches have been 85%-95%. I have just never had the need to track air cell growth or weight. If I were having low hatch rates I would definitely do that to find what the issue may be, but it's never been a problem. I'm not saying this to say that Brinsea is better, or to show a total hands off POV, I'm just curious if other Brinsea users just set and hatch without all of the record keeping.
On a side note, 4 polish out and a ton of pips when I left for work this morning. Had my usual day 20 arrival last night at 9:00PM. Had 3 at 7:00AM, and my wife said #4 popped out at 8:30. After my last hatch, where the final 2 struggled to get out, I have ammended my "no open 'til day 22" position. If the incubator is half full by the time I get home tonight, I will remove the fluffies to make room for the rest. That will still be 24 hours after the first hatch.
In the spirit of full disclosure, I did briefly open the incubator this morning, but only to romove a half shell that had covered a pip

9:00PM

7:00AM