She said/He said Who's right? Who's wrong? No one!

[JulesChicks]

I have the advance. Love it.

Sorry Jules, its been a busy day for me.

I have the Octagon Advance with pump, and love it.

I have only had 2 chicks that started zipping and wouldn't finish. The first, I didn't catch it, and it died. The second was in my previous to the last hatch. I don't know why they do that, except this last one, I suspect was because it was active early, and made quite a big hole to begin with, and the membrane dried around the hole and stuck to a few feathers. It had gotten rolled by another chick, so maybe that had something to do with it. Or maybe it was already too dry inside and it just got stuck.

Its also possible for deformities to cause them to be able to pip and start, but not be able to rotate and finish. Like leg issues and such.

Just a few observations... I'm sure others will have more.

I don't have the Advance but I have an Eco and I love it to death. So much so that part of my tax return might be buying me an Eco 40 and my 20 will retire to a hatcher - unless I manage to overstuff the 40 like I have managed to do with the 20 spectacularly this week. Somehow I need to get 29 duck eggs and 12+ chicken eggs in there. Wish me luck because I'm going to need it

It'll thin out once I can do candling in a few days and see what developing but until then I'm gonna have to get really creative since I loaned out my other incubator and have nowhere else to put these.

Sorry I didn't respond earlier. Thanks so much for the input. I gave it some thought and although I really want the Brinsea - probably the Advance, but need to look into the Eco, I am going to try one more hatch with the 1602. Drove me nuts but I think there may have been enough of my mistakes that I can hopefully take user error out of the equation.

This is what I will do different next time (what I know at the moment anyway):
- Set all eggs at same time, no adding eggs!
- Weigh eggs at set and each candle and maybe mark aircells. May have to get a candler for this instead of just a flashlight.
- Candle before lockdown to look for internal pips and only then lockdown.
- Don't open the bator during lockdown
- Keep low humidity temps, 30-40% days 1-18 and then up to 65-70% during lockdown. I had humidity over 80% at times this time which I thought would help. The fan may have been a problem with stickiness too.
- Need to learn how to calibrate thermometer/hygrometer, I used a digital from Happy Farm with wire probe and just trusted it.
- Possibly keep temps closer to 99, goal is 99.5. The highest temp I saw was 100.8 very briefly, but it was often around 99.5-100. This bator definitely doesn't stay at 99.5!
- Almost forgot, I may move the bator to the floor of an open closet. It's either that or in our shop which stays cool. I don't have many choices since we are living in the apartment above the small shop/garage on our property while the house is gutted. The shop is a wreck though and it's probably best for the closet. I had this hatch in the tiny kitchen, we have a skylight in the adjoining living room, a sliding door next to the range which is only 8-10 feet from the corner where the bator sits, and just to the other side of the door is the stairway down to the shop. During the day it is cool in the shop and warmer in the apartment from all the skylights and west facing windows.

That's all I can think of for now...let me know if you all have any input- next set is Monday -cuz I'm just a little crazy for a beginner!
I'll post pics from my phone in a minute.

 

[Lacrystol]

I'm a call duck mama!! I'm a call duck mama!! Pics when he's dry!!
Hmmm, sticky chicks that stop zipping...my first zipper on my last hatch did this. None of the others did. What incubator are you using? Is it possible the fan is to strong and drying them out as they are trying to zip? How have your air cells been? You said your temps have been high, this is just a maybe but maybe the high temps is causing early pippers/zippers and they need an extra day or two to loose the excess fluid? Combined with the fan...sticky chicks?? Just guessing here.
We always talk about humidity when we hear sticky but I think you're on to something with the temps!
I think to low humidity can be a factor too.

Low humidity for sticky babies?? if anything they would shrink wrap

 

[Lacrystol]

During incubation many have found that low humidity works better. As for hatch humidity I use 75%. Again, there's things to take into consideration such as the habits of the hatcher. Temps are going to depend on the bator. I have only seen a couple people that actually mist chicken eggs and I was like "what?" the first time heard this. Usually my hatches pop like pop corn, no problems pipping zipping, no deaths during pipping zipping, almost non existent post hatch deaths. I don't usually have leg problems or navel issues.

Now, with that being said, this last hatch I just finished I noticed that a good share of my Spitz were hatching with a tiny...I mean like hair width size of ubilicus attatched. That is never an issue with my hatches-BUT this hatch I had to run with higher humidity for the Silkies. I couldn't run at my normally low humidity. I noticed small differences in this hatch that I can only attribute to the difference in the method that I ran with.

Ive never sprayed a chicken egg but yes on ducks. I strongly believe there could be a number of other factors that can cause a bad hatching such as, location, a lot of Rain in your area I could go on and on.

I believe there are soo many small minor issues that can relate to having a failed hatching that its not always one sided and one thing.

The best thing to do is to try and narrow down the major issue..

 

[JulesChicks]

P.S. Never had partial zips happen in the Brinsea. Only in my old Chinese knockoff and in my styrofoam FI that I use as a Hatcher now.

That is a STRONG case for a future Brinsea here! I had several partial zips - one I lost because I didn't catch it in time and I assisted four - out of 22 in lockdown.

If they are getting stuck, what i would do it Spray them, give them a good misting to help loosen them up a bit. What is the humidity at??

My goal was 70-80% based on what the Marans breeder I got some of the eggs from does - though she has an Octagon 20, don't know if it's an advance or not. She would run 30-40% before lockdown and then the higher. I took a very damp with very warm water washcloth, laid it in a bowl and cradled the egg on it. Most of the shells came off fairly easily.

When you say stop are they just stopping as far as progressing out of the shell or are they dying off?

I will try to send a pic of the one that zipped perfectly then stopped. I thought it was resting and hadn't assisted any at that point. So, I had 5 I think that either made a good sized hole and then stopped progressing or zipped most of the way and stopped or literally got stuck, as in the case of the one that got it's foot stuck in the membrane on the outside of the shell and had no leverage to push free.

I'm really starting to think that its heat that causes the chicks to be sticky .I'm trying to hold my temperature down to 99 degrees after two hatches in these old GQF cabinets which were both early . they hatched on day 19 and 20 a little better than 50% hatch rate . the humidity was 28 to 33 percent for incubation and 65 to 75 for hatch . I'm getting to lock down with very large amounts of fluid in the top of the egg and if they hatch they are sticky some pip and can't zip stuck at the pip hole . every thing is calibrated . Mid day heat is giving me fits too. should be at home for most of this set . but have already seen temps go to 101 mid day . You wouldn't that for a brief amount of time it would make that big a difference. I think it does .

Good points.

I find my sticky spots usually are on the ones that pip and take the longest to progress to hatch. And usually it's the head and neck where the air hits through the pip hole, and you know I run generally around 75% at lockdown

I would agree based on my limited experience. I paid closer attention to those areas on the ones I assisted based on this comment and I found it to be true. The very last one to hatch I did not assist and it still was a bit matted the next morning. It had barely pipped, no holes, just cracks, when I opened the bator before it hatched to remove the others, so of which needed care.

 

[Lacrystol]

Ducks frist hatch where outside in elements cold and hot mix. At the end very rainy. We decided to take the dog house from chickens and give it to ducks to make a better environment for duck eggs. It's gets very hot hear in summer over 100 temps on a good summer day. We get cold spells in winter. It doesn't snow but still gets frost bit.

I have an egg in my bator as we speak, it has ONE week left this egg is Totally discolored from the rest. why because when I found it, it was in the pond, Yes submerged under water and Covered with Wet mudd... I decided "ahhh what the heck, lets give it a try". sure enough it started to show signs of life. I'm amazing because I have always believed one should NOT wash an egg because it takes the protective covering off of it and open it up for bacteria to easily get inside.

Well I believe that Theory of mine is going to be washed out (get it, washed) LOL,

if this little one makes it to the end...

 

[Lacrystol]

@RavynFallen



My first ever shipped eggs! Call ducks!

How does the air cells look???? That's a LOT OF BABIES

 

[JulesChicks]

Hmmm, sticky chicks that stop zipping...my first zipper on my last hatch did this. None of the others did. What incubator are you using? Is it possible the fan is to strong and drying them out as they are trying to zip? How have your air cells been? You said your temps have been high, this is just a maybe but maybe the high temps is causing early pippers/zippers and they need an extra day or two to loose the excess fluid? Combined with the fan...sticky chicks?? Just guessing here.

HovaBator 1602N with fan kit made for it and egg turner (before lockdown). Air cells looked good, as far as I could tell for first time. Temps were in range - once or twice I saw it get to 100.6 or 100.8 very briefly and then back down. Temps were usually 99.5-100, may shoot for 99.0-99.5 next time? There didn't seem to be any excess fluid except in one - I forget which one. It may have been one of the 2 I have that have leg problems.

During incubation many have found that low humidity works better. As for hatch humidity I use 75%. Again, there's things to take into consideration such as the habits of the hatcher. Temps are going to depend on the bator. I have only seen a couple people that actually mist chicken eggs and I was like "what?" the first time heard this. Usually my hatches pop like pop corn, no problems pipping zipping, no deaths during pipping zipping, almost non existent post hatch deaths. I don't usually have leg problems or navel issues.

Now, with that being said, this last hatch I just finished I noticed that a good share of my Spitz were hatching with a tiny...I mean like hair width size of ubilicus attatched. That is never an issue with my hatches-BUT this hatch I had to run with higher humidity for the Silkies. I couldn't run at my normally low humidity. I noticed small differences in this hatch that I can only attribute to the difference in the method that I ran with.

I had this happen to a couple. I cut them so they wouldn't pull out or cause bleeding - there was already some bleeding on those 2, not much.

 

[JulesChicks]

Here's one before I assisted:

And another:

Those may be the 2 with bad legs, for sure the second one.

Here's the one that died before I started assisting.

And here's a basket of cuteness to cheer you up after that last one:

Results: 32 set originally, 8 infertile. 24 viable eggs, removed 2 early quitters on day 14 candling. 22 went into lock down and 19 hatched. 6 went to sickbay, some to strengthen up since they were assists and needed a bath. Three of those are now with the rest in the main brooder. Of the 3 in sick bayesterday, one has crooked neck and two have legs problems. Treating with Nutri Drench, vitamin E, Selenium and yogurt. The legs have been hobbled and feet taped to give support and spread out toes. The one I thought would die, picture is second above, has perked up and could get legs almost under it before hobbling. We'll see how they are tomorrow.

So, 16 healthy chicks. 19/24 hatched, first time and with all these problems, 79% ain't too shabby.

 

[Lacrystol]

It's interesting they way that they are zipping. I have to take another look..

 

[tracyjg]

I need to find some time when partner home to finish candling eggs incubator all try to see if he can fix the camera on the phone. Everything's full on storage on film and download to computer. All ask him again. Then you guys can help me weed them out.