Should I feel guilty for having chickens when my neighbors dogs kills my chicken?

[WYNot]

A bit of a crude comparison perhaps but still valid. You don't blame a rape victim and tell here the way she was dressed is the cause of the attack. It is totally on the POS who couldn't control his impulses. Same applies to a flock owner on their own property. You can't blame them and say that letting their birds roam their property is the cause of the attack. It is totally on the irresponsible pet owner who did not control his pet.

I will gladly say that the two acts are nowhere even close to being on the same level of horrid. However the principle behind the comparison is valid.

In the end it still boils down to...

Yes, the flock owner is being way too nice.
Yes, the flock owner does need to step up security on her property to protect her flock.
Yes, the flock owner does need to consider ways to deal with the dog if it should return.
Yes, the dog owner does need to pay damages.
Yes, the dog owner does need to be reported.
Yes, the dog owner does need to take steps to ensure that the dog does not leave his property or his control again.
And finally, yes, the dog owner needs to be prepared for the loss of their "beloved" pet if it happens again.

Again, there is nothing comparable in blaming a rape victim for being raped, and telling a chicken owner that they should put up some fences after a bird was killed. 

They're not alike at all, and suggesting they are is disgusting.

 

[RWD]

Would you put cows on your property without putting up a fence? Just a thought.

 

[WYNot]

Apples and oranges but yes. Never said otherwise. Never said OP had no responsibility to provide protection to her flock. Morally and ethically it is the right thing to do. However, financially and legally it is the dog owner's responsibility to control his "beloved" pet and cover any damage it might do. Financially and legally the only obligation the OP had was to keep her birds on her property and under her control. She did that. Dog owner did not.

Pasture is fenced to keep them IN and shelter is built to protect them from the elements. The fence is not built with the intention of keeping pets and critters out; it is built with the purpose of keeping the cows in. If a neighbors pet gets in it is still the pet owner's fault. it will be dealt with. If we actually had predators in the area that were a danger to the cattle, then yes, precautions would be taken to further reenforce their shelter to protect them. Such precautions are not normally financially feasible and not normally taken on the chance that a neighbor's dog might get in. 130gr of lead is a LOT cheaper than reenforcing fencing around hundreds of acres or even a few acres.

Here in OH at least, it is every animal owner's responsibility to ensure that their animals remain on their property and in their control. Period. If you have an animal, others have zero responsibility to take extra measures to keep it out. I love our pets, currently two cats. I've had dogs before. I loved them too. I would never intentionally harm them or want harm to come to them. I took whatever means needed to ensure they do not cause problems/damages for others. I simply expect others to do the same.

[quote NAME="John Wayne"]“I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.”[/quote]

 

[RWD]

If you have goats, you fence everything out. If you have a hawk or eagle problem, are you going to shoot the hawks and eagles? You as the owner have the ultimate responsibility to protect your livestock or pets.
You have the ultimate responsibility for your own personal safety, or you can rely on your neighbors and the police.
Free ranging is not "free".
Answer to this problem - Build a portable coop that will allow free range benefits by moving daily and provide safety, or you can accept the losses as a cost of doing business.
It is a dog this time, next time it is going to be a coyote, hawk, raccoon, cat or vehicle.

 

[WYNot]

No, if I have goats I fence to keep them in then add more fence and then add yet more fence. hehehe From what I hear those things are escape artists. I'll stick with cattle thank you very much. They are generally easy to keep fenced in.

As for wild critters, yes I will put measures in to reduce their effects as much as possible. Our coop is solid. The run gets closed each night. Four legged critters will be eliminated, via trapping or shooting, only as required. I won't slaughter them wantonly. If they stay in the woods and out of my house and the living space around it I'm fine with them. As soon as they try to get into my house, coop, or barns... then we have a problem and they will lose.

Around our place, the tractors and portable coops are overkill. We have enough trees and cover that flying predators have not been an issue. And between fencing and landscaping, the chickens are kept on the property. I don't rely on neighbors or police to handle the safety of my livestock or myself. I do expect my neighbors to take responsibility for their pets though. If they don't, I will. If a neighbor likes buying replacement dogs and paying damages and replacement costs, that is their problem. I'll gladly ramp up security measures and send them the bill.

As far as relying on police for any kind of protection? That is a whole other discussion. Drawing chalk outlines and issuing traffic citations is about all the "protection" I expect from them. In a rural area they are simply too far away to be good for much else.

Too each their own. I am willing and happy to provide reasonable facilities for my chickens. I'm not going to go broke trying to build Fort Knox though. It simply isn't possible or financially feasible to build for and keep every possible threat out. Everyone's situation is different. For me, I designed and built it to keep out known, local critters. That means a solid coop and a run that can be closed up each night is sufficient. If one of us is home during the day then the girls are let out to free range during the day and closed back into the run/coop each night. If I notice a skunk. raccoon, possum, etc in the area and getting too close to the coop and run, I'll close up the coop at night as well as the run. Once the problem has been dealt with or moves on then the coop is left open at night and just the run closed off every night. The setup was built to keep known local predators out. There are no dogs in the area. It doesn't make sense to go through the added expense. If on some off chance one does come around causing problems and survives the encounter then I'll reenforce the current setup, and gladly hand the bill to the owner.

So far I've had to deal with a couple of opossums and a raccoon. Neither got into the coop or even the run or harmed any birds. Only thing to have gotten into the run in last two years is a little stray kitten. hehe Still not sure how he got in. Girls had him cowering in a corner when we arrived. Our two adult cats won't mess with the chickens. The chickens have chased them both and the cats want nothing further to do with them. Was like the scene in Jurassic Park where the velociraptors have their victim encircled and are closing in.

If you have goats, you fence everything out. If you have a hawk or eagle problem, are you going to shoot the hawks and eagles? You as the owner have the ultimate responsibility to protect your livestock or pets.
You have the ultimate responsibility for your own personal safety, or you can rely on your neighbors and the police.
Free ranging is not "free".
Answer to this problem - Build a portable coop that will allow free range benefits by moving daily and provide safety, or you can accept the losses as a cost of doing business.
It is a dog this time, next time it is going to be a coyote, hawk, raccoon, cat or vehicle.

 

[DRGLENNON]

A bit of a crude comparison perhaps but still valid. You don't blame a rape victim and tell here the way she was dressed is the cause of the attack. It is totally on the POS who couldn't control his impulses. Same applies to a flock owner on their own property. You can't blame them and say that letting their birds roam their property is the cause of the attack. It is totally on the irresponsible pet owner who did not control his pet.

I will gladly say that the two acts are nowhere even close to being on the same level of horrid. However the principle behind the comparison is valid.

In the end it still boils down to...

Yes, the flock owner is being way too nice.
Yes, the flock owner does need to step up security on her property to protect her flock.
Yes, the flock owner does need to consider ways to deal with the dog if it should return.
Yes, the dog owner does need to pay damages.
Yes, the dog owner does need to be reported.
Yes, the dog owner does need to take steps to ensure that the dog does not leave his property or his control again.
And finally, yes, the dog owner needs to be prepared for the loss of their "beloved" pet if it happens again.

I agree, it's still blaming the victim to take the attention off the real problem. I bought my property and should be able to live in peace. I was glad to hear that the dog owner in this case was upfront and at least attempting to deal with the problem. Strange to me he made no excuses but so many other have on his behalf. I.m sry for the loss.

 

[CrazyTalk]

I agree, it's still blaming the victim to take the attention off the real problem.

No, it's not.


Nobody is saying the neighbor's dog isn't a problem, or at fault. What we're saying is that getting rid of the neighbor's dog isn't going to fix anything unless you fix the real issue - you have no fences, and you're keeping animals that everything likes to eat.

The neighbor's dog is a red herring. Killing it may stop things for the moment, but at some point in the future you WILL lose your birds to another predator.

 

[DRGLENNON]

No, it's not.


Nobody is saying the neighbor's dog isn't a problem, or at fault. What we're saying is that getting rid of the neighbor's dog isn't going to fix anything unless you fix the real issue - you have no fences, and you're keeping animals that everything likes to eat.

The neighbor's dog is a red herring. Killing it may stop things for the moment, but at some point in the future you WILL lose your birds to another predator.

If I'm free ranging and my bird goes on the neighbors property and his dog kills it that's my fault. If a raccoon comes on my property it's a risk I chose to take. Ridding the the area of out of control stays is a community service. What if the next victim is a child.

 

[CrazyTalk]

If I'm free ranging and my bird goes on the neighbors property and his dog kills it that's my fault. If a raccoon comes on my property it's a risk I chose to take. Ridding the the area of out of control stays is a community service. What if the next victim is a child.

I don't know what you're arguing with. You're literally agreeing with everything I've said.


My point is, again, if you don't fix/add fences, you're going to lose birds. Period. That's it. Obsessing over the dog isn't going to keep you from losing birds. Simple.

 

[DRGLENNON]

I don't know what you're arguing with. You're literally agreeing with everything I've said.


My point is, again, if you don't fix/add fences, you're going to lose birds. Period. That's it. Obsessing over the dog isn't going to keep you from losing birds. Simple.

I'm really not arguing . I just think that if someone wants to free range on their property they should be able to do that without having to deal with the neighbors out of control pets. I'm just thankful my dog does not eat my birds and is protective of my flock. He keeps wildlife away so my chickens can roam during the day. I would not obsess over the dog. I would notify animal control and if the dog came back I would put it down. I think that's reasonable.